[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign the podcast for those who find themselves immersed in adversity and choose to write their story instead of having others write it for them. I'm Drew Duraney and I'm your host.
Today's guests are Mike and Karen Burkhard. Mike Burkhard is an independent author and speaker based in Bucks County, Pennsylvania. As a former HR executive in global technology companies, Mike led efforts to create a culture where the company and employees prospered. At the peak of his career, he made the bold decision to step away from corporate life to pursue writing, speaking, and a simpler, more intentional way of living. In his 2020 book, Defeating the Toxic New, Finding our Path Back to Empathy and Understanding, he writes of the root cause of division in the world and how we begin to appreciate each other again. Married to his wife Karen for 44 years, he is the father of three adult children and the proud grandfather of six.
A lifelong student of human motivation, positive psychology, and personal growth, Mike continually studies the themes of longevity, health, contentment, and self discovery. Along the human journey, he enjoys walking, golfing, eating good food, and spending time with family.
Karen Burkhart is an entrepreneur at heart, owning past businesses in decorative painting, interior design, and Montessori education.
As a nurturer, she enjoys inspiring others to live a healthy, balanced life with a deep interest in a holistic approach. She has worked as a certified health coach and trained yoga instructor. Her recent studies in watercolor painting and feng shui have led her to help families create balance in their homes. Karen enjoys Italian cooking, restorative yoga, tending to the herb garden, and entertaining family and friends. Her newest passion is baking sourdough bread to share with others. Spending time with her adult children and six grandchildren has earned her the cherished title Mimi, the favorite of all her roles.
Enjoy the show.
Mike and Karen, how are you guys?
[00:02:17] Speaker B: Great.
[00:02:18] Speaker C: Good. Drew, it's great to be with you today.
[00:02:20] Speaker A: Great to be with you, too. So this is the second couple I've had on, so I've had some practice. This is going to be fun.
So I, I want to. I always start out by thanking the person who introduced me to my guest. So Frank Zakari, thank you so much my friend. I appreciate you introducing me to Mike and Karen and, and I really looking forward to, to talking about what they have coming up though. First of all, we want to go back in the past and you know, you guys, I always talk about how when we're, when we're young, we're taught that life is linear. We're told it's a straight line. A if you Do A plus B plus C, D is going to happen. Everything's going to be fine.
For the most part, life is linear until it's not right. There's always that external circumstance that gets in the middle of one of those letters, and it derails our straight path in life.
And I also, you know, often talk about when that adversity makes, you know, rears its ugly head.
There's three types of people. We can be three types of men, three types of women. Man or woman number one doesn't even see that adversity. She. And he's got so many blind spots. They just live life the way they were told to, and that's it.
And then you have man and woman number two.
They actually see the adversity, yet they consider themselves victims. Everybody else is to blame. Life is doing this to me. They don't change anything. And on their deathbed, they've got a ton of regrets.
Then there's man and woman number three. That's Mike and Karen.
They actually see the adversity and say, you know what? These aren't. This adversity is not a barrier. It's an opportunity to do something different, take massive action and become stronger man and woman on the other side.
So with that in mind, and we'll start with Karen, because chivalry still exists. Karen, I want you for the audience, reach back as far as you need to to find that defining moment. Whether it was the tap on the shoulder, the whisper in the ear, or like what I needed, the 2 by 4 upside my head, that transition that transformed you from the woman you used to be, woman number one or two, to the woman you are now and how that affected you personally and professionally.
[00:04:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Wow. Great question, Drew.
I would say, you know, growing up in a very loving home, I'm very grateful for my upbringing. My dad was first generation Italian.
My mom just a very gentle, loving soul. So on my Italian side, I was the first grandchild born. It was a big deal with Italians, the christening, the whole bit. So I spent a lot of time with. With my Italian family.
And I would say that as a young age, I learned when I'm good, when I do good things, I get praise and love, and I like that.
So I would say I grew up really as a good girl. I was a good girl, and I liked doing things good.
Okay, so it got to the point where, 14 years old, I'm struggling with math.
Actually, it was before that, but I sort of hit it because, you know, again, I like to be good at things. And all of a sudden, I'm not good at this. Like, what? I'm not smart at this. What's wrong with me?
But I sort of hit it. Didn't ask for help or support.
When I was a freshman, 14 years old, New York State has what they call Regents, and I failed the Regents horribly.
My dad was a teacher. He was a very disciplinarian, and he had the insight to realize that I needed to pass this hurdle. This wasn't a good thing. He tutored me all summer in algebra with the Regents. I took it again at the end of the summer. Now, granted, my dad was a busy man. He had a basketball program he did in the summer. He played tennis, he fished. For him to take time out to do this, it was big.
And I did not want to disappoint him. So anyway, I took the Regents. At the end of the summer, I got a 92.
So dad was a mentor. What he taught me and the person I became was, if I can do this man, I can do anything. Because I did not think I could ever do algebra. So I guess that was a huge lesson. And dad's work ethic just really made me who I am.
[00:06:58] Speaker A: Absolutely. And he had faith in you. He knew it was in you. To get that 92, you just had to apply yourself.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: So I think so.
[00:07:05] Speaker A: That's great. Thank you for sharing that. All right, Mike, your turn, man. What's your defining moment that turned you into the man you are today?
[00:07:12] Speaker C: Yeah, I can think of many that I've had, both good and bad. But the one that's most impactful that I think about is when I was 30 years old and my mom was 58 years old and she had liver cancer and had gone through this disease for two years, tried all the chemicals, tried alternative, which she actually started healing from. And then she got in a car accident on a snowy day, went back in the hospital, and mentally, she just fell backwards again and the cancer came back strong. And she died at the end of this two year window, and I was 30 years old. I was a cocky guy, moody at times, but going through that experience.
And by the way, a bit of a know it all. And Karen might relate to some of those.
I like to think that's the old me. But probably vestiges of that still in me. But watching my mom go through that, I learned that, you know, not immediately, but as. As the years unfolded and watching that that life was precious and life goes fast and things can happen and that total health was more than just, you know, this Cancer arriving. It was the emotional part of it that my mom struggled with some things, the physical part.
So I saw that this whole total body health was important.
And so more than anything I just appreciated life more after that experience.
I love deeper.
I was fortunate at the time. I had three young children.
And on the flip side of the negative, if you will, I had become a father and my love was just so much deeper for my children. It was a miracle to have children. And so I changed as an individual. And I would say, you know, to the learning was I went from an internal me to an external me. It was all about me for a long, long time. 30 years, I'll say. Karen might say it still is all about me. But no, I'm joking a bit. But the external me was born. It's like I saw in other people's eyes, you know, health and well being and emotion. I saw in my own children that just such beauty. So it just opened my eyes to. To the external that it's not all about me and to watch, start watching my emotions more. So very impactful experience over 30 years ago and changed my life wherever. I always say my mom gave me life twice the day I was born and the day she died. And I learned so much from her, watching her experience.
[00:09:56] Speaker A: Wow. Thank you for sharing that similarities in that defining moment. Can you touch on the similarity that for both of your defining moments?
What would be, what would be a similarity in what you. What you saw in your. Your mom, Mike and your dad, Karen?
[00:10:16] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, they were similar people. They were strong personalities, they were disciplinarians and they were wonderful mentors. And I think they truly shaped us to want to carry that onto others, that mentorship.
[00:10:35] Speaker A: Right.
[00:10:37] Speaker B: Because it was, it was valuable and if we could pass that on to others, that's what I wanted to do.
[00:10:44] Speaker C: I would add to that too. I agree with that.
It's to me, I look back and I see there's usually an emotion that gets linked to an event much when we're really young. And as I grew up, I had these emotions of, you know, know it all and.
But when my went through my mom's experience, my emotion changed. My emotion became a deeper love for life, deeper love for my mom.
And it just shifted the emotion. I was no longer arrogant. I wasn't totally arrogant, but arrogant enough. And it just humbled me and my emotion changed and I can still feel it the day she died. I just. That whole time I can just feel that the emotion changed in me.
[00:11:26] Speaker A: Yep. Really it's go Go through a lot like that.
People say time heals all wounds, and it doesn't. It just puts layers on it.
Right.
[00:11:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:37] Speaker A: And the. The wounds are always there. It's just how we handle it, how we react to it, and. But the good memories we have of. Of our parents, of. Of your dad, Karen and your mom, Mike, that's. That's going to stay with you, and that's what's really important.
[00:11:52] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:11:53] Speaker A: So. All right. Now, I know from when we talked before, there's this thing about high school sweetheart things, and that actually does exist.
I didn't know it really exists. I thought it was a fairy tale.
[00:12:07] Speaker B: So.
[00:12:08] Speaker A: So tell. Yeah, tell us about how you two met.
And I want to know who made the first move.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: Well, I'll start. First of all, Mike and I both love sports. We're both very athletic, and I think that common love of sports created a friendship. So it started that way.
The fact that I came from a basketball family. My dad was the high school basketball coach, and Mike excelled in basketball. He played varsity as a freshman.
So anyway, our love of sports, I think, brought us together. And who made the first move? It was. It was Mike. We were at a freshman dance. I was 14, he was 15.
Someone bet him like 27 cents that he wouldn't ask me to dance. Well, he did.
And, you know, the rest is history.
[00:13:12] Speaker A: All right. I love it. I love it, I love it, I love it.
And I. I love that. What kind of dance was. It was a slow dance or was it?
[00:13:22] Speaker B: I even remember the song. Do you remember the song?
[00:13:25] Speaker C: Nice and White?
[00:13:26] Speaker A: Ah, you're right, it was. I can see this.
That's a good song. I like that song.
[00:13:32] Speaker C: Well, every once in a while it'll come on and she'll remind me and I'm like, oh, yeah, I remember that.
[00:13:36] Speaker A: So when it comes on, do you dance together again?
[00:13:40] Speaker C: Sometimes. Not all the time.
[00:13:41] Speaker B: I used to pull them on the dance floor, though. I'm the dancer.
[00:13:44] Speaker A: I love it, I love it, I love it. So what. What did you guys do? Are you guys both working now? Did you take a step back? Retired. I know you're working on a book, which we are totally going to get into.
What are you guys doing now, professionally?
[00:13:59] Speaker B: Well, I'll start. You know, I also had a mind thought at one point, maybe it was in my 50s.
Why am I so scattered? I mean, I can't stick with one thing.
I love to learn. I'm very curious. So I would do something, let's say decorative arts. And I did interior Design.
I would do it for a couple years, and then something would pull me to something else. Then I wanted to learn feng shui. Then I wanted to learn yoga. And I was like this, what is wrong with me? And I guess the shift.
And it was through reading books and podcasts and just better self awareness, I changed my conversation to, you know what? I am a curious person who loves to learn. And being a curious person leads to creativity. And that's not a bad thing. That's actually a good thing. So I change that negative thought of being scattered to I'm an artistic, creative person.
And so with that in mind, I always wanted to do things that brought out my creativity, my artistic ways.
So part of what we're doing now together is working on a book, which we're very excited about.
[00:15:24] Speaker A: All right, how about you, Mike? What did you do professionally before you started deciding to write a book with Karen?
[00:15:31] Speaker C: Well, one of the things that started when I had mentioned my mom's story after she died, I started to question human development and what motivates us and how do we live a full life. So I started researching, writing online courses, and I was in product management for 20 years. And through that work and learning more, I actually moved into human resources leadership at AT T and then at other technology companies. Along the way, I became fascinated with this journey of human being and so purposely moved into human resources. I did that.
I love building cultures, understanding how people work together and win. I love leadership development, both the blind sides of leadership and how to bring out the best of leaders to build culture and build people, develop people, just love all of that. I became a bit burned out with corporate world. I left several years ago to pursue something new, which was being an author and a speaker.
I wrote one book back in 2020 we can talk a little about. And this is the second book. It was a big risk, a big jump for me because you become very comfortable with your role. Working in a corporation and the first year being out, it was so hard for me because I had become associated with that role. I was an HR executive, and I. I didn't know anything else, really. I thought that was my identity. So over time, it wasn't immediate. I created my real. I'll call it internal ident, you know, to love more, look for simplicity, make life more simple, manage my emotions, and then how can I bring that to other people? So that's been the evolution and. And that's the essence of our book, which we can get into more detail. But I'll. I'll stop There for, for the moment.
[00:17:23] Speaker A: All right, so yeah, we're going to talk about the book. I know that we're talking about the pre sale coming up on October 9th of this year, 2025.
So let's, let's, let's, let's talk about the inception of the idea of the book.
Where did it come from, when did it surface and how did you guys start developing it?
[00:17:48] Speaker C: I would say I've been journaling for 20 years leading to the first book, this second book called Rediscovering the Treasures of Life.
52 stories of goodness. It's 52 stories with a bonus story, 53 stories actually. But I, through my journaling and writing these stories over time, I'm like, you know, we all have a story in life, we all have common themes. The plot is the same, the characters, the time, the circumstances might be a bit different, but the plot to go through life, to learn in life and, and to move forward is there for all of us. So I wrote these stories then in with something in mind which was, you know, we all can relate to stories. We, we all fight over religion or dogmas or politics and all those things that are so, become so hardened in our minds often. But stories are very relatable.
So I thought one day, maybe two years ago as I started formulating the idea, what about 52 stories of goodness and this main title, Rediscovering the Treasures of Life. You know, this, these emotions, the goodness of our hearts, it's in all of us. But we often forget, especially in today's world with this wave of negativity through social media and other things that come at us, we often forget. So we kind of shape the book title together and the format of it. Rediscovering. Because we don't have the answers, Karen and I, but we have the reminders through stories and people are going to be able to relate to that. We believe and feel like they're not alone, that we all go through these experiences and be reminded of the very treasures of life.
[00:19:35] Speaker B: And you know, Drew, we have, we're blessed to have six grandchildren and the book's actually dedicated to them and we just want the world to see a different face of humanity.
And I was with my 6 year old grandson the other day, Hudson, he loves stories and I told him a fable about the one where the grandfather is with his young son or grandson and he says, you know, there's a terrible fight going on within me. There's two dragons, there's an evil dragon and he's mean and greedy and selfish. And then there's a good dragon who's kind and generous and has empathy. And the two. It's just a horrible fight that's going on.
And so the fable goes, the young boy said, well, who's winning the fight? Grandpa? And the grandfather smiled and said, the one we feed.
The one we feed. So Hudson, he was like, love that story. And he's like, well, Mimi, I'm known as Mimi. How do I feed my good dragon?
And it's. I'm like, you know what? That's what the world needs. Needs to see.
I think we're feeding the wrong dragon. But we don't even see it because of this toxic new normal. It's like normal, you know.
You know, for example, for women, anti aging is a thing. Now you got to do all these things because it's anti aging. And I'm like, you know, there's something wrong with that. What's wrong with aging? We're all going to age.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: Yeah, right.
[00:21:17] Speaker B: And, um, it's become the normal, though, to try to combat that and to stay, you know, forever youthful healthy is one thing, but to try to look like you're 30 when you're 67? No, I don't think so.
So again, what's become normal is. Is actually toxic, and we don't even see it. So we want to shine a light on what's positive and what's good in.
[00:21:43] Speaker A: The world that's beautiful.
The creativity you. You behold within you. How do you utilize your creativity when you're writing this book, Karen?
[00:21:55] Speaker B: Well, I have to say Mike is actually the author and. And did the writings. Yeah, I'm the illustrator with the. With the pictures in it. So a little spoiler alert.
[00:22:05] Speaker A: There's gonna be pictures in it. Okay. So use your creativity in the pictures, though.
[00:22:10] Speaker B: I'm the illustrator. Yes.
[00:22:11] Speaker A: I love it. All right.
So anything else you want to tell us about the book? Without giving away anything.
[00:22:22] Speaker C: I would. I would just add that. And you mentioned it earlier, you know, we. We all carry different emotions in life.
They never really go away. They're always in you somewhere.
[00:22:35] Speaker B: And.
[00:22:38] Speaker C: But this book, it's a reminder that we can manage the emotions.
And there's good and bad emotions or negative emotions that might hold us back. But this 52 stories is really filled with reminders that we can move our own life forward. We can be positive. There's more positive about ourselves and how we can grow and learn. And I think that's important to know because I think often it's like, no, you shouldn't feel that way. You shouldn't have a bad day. Well, you're going to have a bad day recognizing you're having a bad day. And what can you learn from it? The emotion of it, potentially. That's the important part and that's being human. And so this is a book about being human, embracing your humanness and that we're all in it together. We're not separate.
[00:23:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Beautiful message. Absolutely. Well, the audience certainly has captured the essence of Mike and Karen Burkhart. To get in touch with them, guys, you're going to have to wait a little bit. They're going to have a website for the book live on October 1st. Not that far. That's coming up.
And best way to reach out with them now is go onto Facebook, look for Mike Burkhardt and Karen Burkhard. And as far as the pre sale goes, get ready for October 9th. All right. When we can pre sale, do the pre sale on the book.
And it's going to be an exciting time for them and for and for the audience because you can, you can pre order your copy of their book.
You want to say the name of it again?
[00:24:08] Speaker C: Yes. Rediscovering the treasures of life.
52 stories of goodness.
[00:24:14] Speaker A: Love it. Love it. All right, I want to give you two opportunities here. So, Karen, we're going to start with you first. I want to give you the opportunity. You're going to find your happy place and you're sitting down with 7 to 10 year old Karen and you want to give her advice about life. What are you going to tell her?
[00:24:30] Speaker B: Ah, wow.
You know, I think because of my personal experiences, I would say don't dwell on what you're not good at. It's okay not to be good at everything.
Like, don't worry about that and put your energy where you are. Good. Because when you do that and you have passion behind what you do, you're going to love what you do and you will have fun and thrive.
[00:25:04] Speaker A: I love that. Love that. All right, Mike, so you're sitting down with 7 to 10 year old Mike and you're giving him advice about life. What are you going to tell him?
[00:25:13] Speaker C: I had a feeling you were going to ask that question because I've watched some of your podcasts and I have an answer that came to me immediately, and that is, it's through the dedication of the book. I want to read it because the dedication of this book is to our grandchildren, our six grandchildren. So I want to read that because I think the answer to your question Is there absolutely. Dedication to our beautiful grandchildren, Vale Hudson, June, Nora, Paige, and Penelope. May you and your generation find timeless wisdom within the words of this book. May love shine in your hearts always for yourself and for others. You will find there is no greater treasure.
And our grandchildren range in age like 9, 6, 4, 2, 3 years old. And you know that that's about the age that you asked about. And I would say to them, love yourself first.
Don't beat yourself up. You are good enough. You can do anything and, and believe in yourself. Now at 7 years old, it's hard to know all that and understand it all. You have to kind of live some of that. But if you can love yourself first and understand that loving others, moving through the world, keeping positivity around you is all possible.
[00:26:33] Speaker A: I love that.
All right, so, Karen, back to you now. We're going to talk business. You're sitting down with young businesswoman, young entrepreneur Karen, and you want to give her advice about business. What are you going to tell her?
[00:26:46] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I touched on that, Drew, with my, my feelings at one point, maybe it was my midlife crisis in my 50s, of, of feeling like I, I'm scattered. I keep starting businesses. I'm an entrepreneur at heart, and I'm a nurturer. I love to begin and start things, but I. It seems like I can't stick with one thing.
And so I would tell her, it's okay, you know, it's okay. What you've done is created lots of really cool things that maybe other people then over, and you have continued to learn and grow, and your curiosity continues to spark your creativity.
So it's, it's okay. And as a businesswoman, you know, you're doing fine.
[00:27:38] Speaker A: I love it, Mike. Now you're sitting down with young entrepreneur, young businessman Mike, and here comes the advice about business.
[00:27:48] Speaker C: Oh, wow.
You know, I think, I think of a chapter in the book. It's called the Road to Somewhere, and it's one I wrote recently, maybe three months ago, one of the last chapters to finalize. And I was in a car with Karen, and we were driving along, and this whole book launch, podcasting, public speaking, putting ourselves out there, it's a very fearful thing. It's very new to us.
And I could think of at least three or four good reasons why not to do it. And I call that the road to nowhere.
And on that road, there are signs like you're not good enough. Who's going to read what you write? You know, wouldn't it be easier to do nothing? You know, Those kind of road signs. And I said to Karen, we were in the car and she said to me, you think it's time to do this? That we should really, really do this? I go, karen, what I do know is where the road to nowhere goes, and it goes to nowhere. I said, what. What I want to explore is the road to somewhere. Because the road to somewhere, you're not sure where it goes, but it has signs like, anything's possible. You can do this, you're learning, you're growing. There's such positive signs there. So what's the message within all that? Fear is a great driving force in our lives. Be it in a career, being what you've wanted to do your whole life, the fear is going to come up. Often it's an emotion you may not see or understand, but it's there. And usually I'd say 98% of the time, it's the road to nowhere. It'll hold you back, you'll stop. So I would say always consider the road to somewhere and know that the road to nowhere is always going to pop up, but the road to somewhere is. Is just filled with possibility.
[00:29:36] Speaker A: I absolutely love that. Well, I want to thank the two of you for coming on. I want to thank the two of you for coming to my life. Frank, thanks for introducing Karen and Mike to me.
Keep doing what you're doing. You guys are wonderful human beings and I am so looking forward to reading the book again. Everybody, website live October 1st of 2025 and pre sale October 9th. So be ready for October 9th to get to pre order your copy.
And folks out there, please take care of yourselves and take the road to somewhere.
All right, yeah, take care, everybody.
Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, please subscribe and give us a review to help others find it.
I'd like you to answer this question.
Are you living the life you want to to live or are you living the life others want you to live? I'd like you to think about that for a second because I strongly suggest you live the life you want to live. If you want to learn more about what I stand for and my services and how I'm able to help many men get out of their own way, please go to my
[email protected] compassion.com.
feel free to also email me at drewrophetcompassion.com I'd love to have a conversation with you.
Take care of yourself and choose to write your own story instead of letting others write it for you.
