Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Welcome to from caving in to crushing it, the podcast for those who find themselves immersed in adversity and choose to write their story instead of having others write it for them. I'm Drew Duraney and I'm your host. Today's guest is Christine Mattis. Christine L. Mattis is a seasoned attorney, advocate, and best selling author of Safeguarding your assets, a long term care planning guide for those in New Jersey and basic estate planning for special needs parents. She is the founder of the Mattis Law Group, a firm dedicated to helping families, especially those with children and loved ones with special needs, navigate estate and long term care planning with confidence and clarity.
As a mother to a daughter with down syndrome and autism, Christine brings both personal insight and professional expertise to her work. She was recently honored as professional lawyer of the year by the Ocean County Bar association in New Jersey and currently serves as its president.
Christine also holds leadership positions on several nonprofit boards focused on disability advocacy and inclusion. Her life's mission is to empower families to protect their loved ones, plan for the future, and turn overwhelming challenges into opportunities for strengths and success.
Enjoy the show. Christine Mattis, I am so happy to have you here.
[00:01:31] Speaker A: So excited to be here. This is wonderful.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: I mean, I, I love attorneys. I do, I do. You know, there are stereotypical, you know, comments about attorneys and you are not what the stereotype is.
The audience is going to love this. I mean, I mean, what a warm human being.
I, and you guys know I always thank the person who introduces me to my guest. So once again, I'm thanking you for something. Bill Walters, thank you for introducing me to Christine Mattis. She is a gem. And we're just building our relationship here. So, and, and, and folks, just so everybody knows, we are recording now, Christine Mattis is the 150th episode recording. So it's a milestone and I'm very proud of, of this and, and I'm happy to have Christine to be the 150th.
[00:02:23] Speaker A: So special. Amazing. It's amazing for you.
[00:02:26] Speaker B: This is great. This is awesome. So, Christine, I always mentioned to my, to my audience and they're familiar with this, that, you know, when we're young, we're taught by our closest relatives or friends or colleagues or life that life is linear. We're told if we do A plus, B plus C D is going to happen.
And for the most part, life is linear until it's not. There's always an external circumstance that gets in the way of one of those letters and derails that straight path and now we've got a circuitous route in life.
And that route, what rears its ugly head is some adversity.
And I say there's three types of women out there, three types of men. For your case, I'm going to say three types of women out there. You have woman number one, who's got a ton of blind spots. She doesn't even notice that adversity.
[00:03:11] Speaker A: She.
[00:03:12] Speaker B: She just figures she's handed away to live her life and she's just going to live it that way, and that's it. So that's blind spots, woman number one. Then there's woman number two. She sees the adversity. So a little more heightened awareness than woman number one. Yet she says, everybody else is to blame. I'm the victim. Life's doing it to me. There's nothing I can do. It is what it is. And she changes nothing. And you know what? On her deathbed, she's got so many regrets.
And then there's woman number three. That's Christine Mattis. Woman number three is the woman who sees that adversity. She says, finally, I am sick and tired of being sick and tired. This adversity is not a barrier. It's an opportunity to become a stronger woman, take massive action, and become stronger on the other side.
So with all of that, woman number three, Christine, if you could reach back as far as you need to for that defining moment, whether it was the tap on the shoulder, the whisper in the ear, like what I needed two by four upside my head, that kind of transformed you from the woman you were woman one or two, to woman number three, who you are now and how that's impacted your personal life and your professional life.
[00:04:20] Speaker A: Yeah. And I love that because, you know, for a long time, I was woman number one and two without knowing it. You know, a lot of times we live and we live and we go through things and you feel things, you start to feel down, you start to feel bad.
And you may ask, why me? And you do get tired of getting that.
[00:04:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:42] Speaker A: And then something happens. So in my situation, a lot of it was really taking perspective, Drew. So I guess just dialing it back, you know, I have two beautiful kids, and my youngest was born with down syndrome and autism, but we weren't prepared for that.
And, you know, in hindsight, sometimes I wish I may have. I should have maybe asked more questions and found out more information to be prepared, because we really weren't. I really wasn't prepared.
And I do remember when she was born, I had this sinking Feeling like. Because no one in our family have ever had something like this. We never. I didn't even know anybody who had a member of our family with special needs. And I remember I was in the hospital. We just gave. I just gave birth, like, two hours ago.
And then I fell asleep, and I had a dream. And I remember it vividly, Drew. I was in this lake, and I was drowning, and I couldn't breathe. And I looked to my side. It was my daughter. My baby, at the time was drowning with me. And I remember that feeling that if I don't put my head up and I can't lift her, we're both going to die. And I remember this feeling of just effort. And then I woke up. And then, you know, you. You don't really remember dreams. But then it came back to me, and I can still remember the salt in my mouth. I mean, it was just so weird, that dream, right? And I remember I don't want to be that way. I don't want to feel drowning, and I don't want to have my attitude and my pessimism bring everybody down.
So. But it was a lot of work. And it wasn't just like, overnight, like, I'm gonna be great.
It was a lot of mindset work, Drew. So I had to really make an effort to look into, you know, what makes other people tick, what makes other families who have the situation succeed. And succeed is such a, you know, such a subjective term. But I kept thinking, I can't be the only one. And I remember thinking about what to do. And my father. I'll share with you. My father is, God bless him, he's 87 now. We always call him the Pollyanna of the family. And I remember when things were happening, we're still learning about how do we help our youngest, how do we help us, and things like that. And. And my dad sat with me and my husband, and he said. He goes, guys, you know, at the time, it's 2007, it's modern times, you know, there's a solution to everything, and then you'll be happy. And then my husband said, drew, he said, I'm already happy. And I was like, that was a wake up call. Yeah, right. I am already happy now. I could be happy now. It is a choice.
[00:07:24] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely.
[00:07:25] Speaker A: And I think that was a big deal where I felt, yeah, we're not. We don't need to wallow and think pessimistically and things like that. We took control.
And so that was way back around 2007, 2009, but it wasn't always persistent. And over the years, I've contacted other families. I. You know, it's before Facebook and all those social media, Drew. So you would reach out to support groups you actually attended in groups that we'd meet at the library or ymca, and you met families and you hear what their journey was. And what I loved was everybody was, for the most part, happy. They were like, you know what? These are the struggles that we have, but this is how we found our way around it, and this is how you think of it.
And. And. And it's a muscle. You know, I just keep trying to build on it and learn, and I'm still learning. I'm human. And there are moments, Even today, in 2025, where something happens and I start to dwell on the negative part, and I have to shake myself out of it. Right. But it's a lot of mindset work and a lot of being with other people who are uplifting. You know, our. You know, that whole saying, birds of a feather, it is true.
It is very true. I love those. All those phrases are so true. They keep coming back to me, keep telling me, oh, my God, my mom was right.
And, you know, when you surround yourself with confident, uplifting, positive people, you can't help but be that.
[00:08:53] Speaker B: Right.
[00:08:54] Speaker A: But, you know, when you are around other people who may be negative, and being a victim is real, Drew. I get into that, and sometimes I hear myself. I'm like, what am I saying? What's happening here?
[00:09:06] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:09:06] Speaker A: And I hear it with other people, and I do try to remind them, not in a lecture way, but, hey, listen, let's focus on the positive. Let's focus on what is. What is good.
So I have to say, it was, you know, around that 2009 period, that dream. It was just such a weird dream. And then my father saying, if these things happen, you'll be happy. And my husband saying, I'm happy now. And you know what? Yeah. I'm happy because I'm making an effort. I am intentionally going to be happy. Right? Because that is. That is a thing you can. Will. That is a thing you can control.
You can control your thoughts, you control your focus.
Is it easy? No way. No way.
But I. I love doing that. My family, I'm always reading certain books that, you know, give me that confidence, and I love sharing it with everyone because I hear something. I was just, oh, you know, this is what you're going through, and this is. Here's a technique.
But, no, I.
Knowing that you've faced certain things You've met other people. And I think the common thread is that we all of a sudden had awareness.
[00:10:13] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:10:13] Speaker A: Once you start to be aware and start to take control, things do change.
But it's hard. I wish I could tell you, like, oh, it's so easy. Just do this.
But it. It isn't.
[00:10:26] Speaker B: And you mentioned something before about, you know, still slipping into that negative. And it doesn't matter what. What expert people call us. We're all human beings, right. And we're always going to slip. We're. We're going to slip, and it's a matter of catching ourselves a little quicker than the previous time and bouncing back.
[00:10:44] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: But amazing, amazing. So. So at what point was it during when you were pregnant with your daughter, did you have any inklings that something was up or was.
[00:10:56] Speaker A: You know, it was interesting. When I was having the sonogram. Yeah, I remember the tech.
[00:11:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:03] Speaker A: Her face froze.
[00:11:05] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:11:05] Speaker A: And she's saying thing. All she said was, doctor's gonna talk to you. I'm like, oh, okay. So we waited, and when the doctor came in, they said there were certain characteristics that might lend itself that your daughter may have down syndrome. But we're not confirmed.
[00:11:21] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:11:22] Speaker A: We saw four specialists, and all of them said, no, I don't think so.
And, you know, the reason why I was searching it out for me, and there's no wrong answer, but for me, my intention was just to know, but. And then I didn't really want to know, you know, so someone said, hey, why don't you do an amyo? And there was some risk involved with that, but I said, no, I don't want to do an amyo, because at the end of the day, I want to, you know, the baby is who the baby is. And so I think I kind of lived the life at that time where I had blinders on, where I'm like, it's going to. I honestly couldn't fathom how I would feel, so I really didn't want to read about anything now and then I would come across an article, down syndrome, and I'd read it, but then I didn't.
And it's just my immature way of dealing with things that I just wanted to almost ignore it. And I thought, ah, everything will work out. And I have to share with you. I mean, things did work out, God bless. But I think spiritually, emotionally, mentally, I could have done a better job. But I think the whole family was kind of a little bit in shock. Like, really, is this happening? And. And, you know, you knew you And I always know there's no good, there's no bad. It was different.
It was different, right? And that was a different thing. And I honestly didn't know how to deal with that different.
But again, looking back in time, I think, you know, I forgive myself. I did the best with. Best of the information I had in front of me. We all did. I don't blame anybody.
[00:12:53] Speaker B: No, no.
[00:12:54] Speaker A: But I do rem that feeling when it was happening and I had that. That stomach ache.
[00:13:00] Speaker B: I can.
[00:13:00] Speaker A: I can't remember it, you know, and a little bit lost. And I remember holding really strong. Drew. Everybody was in the delivery room. Everybody. And I know they didn't know what to say. And I said. And I kept saying, saying it. It's going to be fine. Gonna be fine. I remember when everybody left for the evening, and one nurse came, she goes, hey, hey, Christine. Can I help you to the bathroom? And then I broke down, and I remember.
[00:13:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:24] Speaker A: And she said, okay, okay. I still get a little emotional about that because I. I held it in for the whole family. Everybody was coming in. They were like, congratulations. I go, yeah, congratulations.
But then I remember when I was alone, I just let it out, you know, because I didn't want to show that I was scared because I didn't want any. Because my mom was issue was just like, are we gonna. Can we cope with this? I go, yeah, we can cope with this. Oh, it's going to be fine. I remember saying to her, I go, mom, it's going to be fine. And she goes, okay, all right. And I wanted to do that for everybody. But when. When the lights went out and I was by myself, that was tough.
[00:13:58] Speaker B: You had to let it out. Well, you know, it's interesting when they. When they ask, do you want the am Amniocentesis?
I can understand, like, thinking, maybe, maybe not. No, I don't want to know. Like, even if you did do it and you found out you were going to still have the baby, so what. I mean, I like your outlook that it's going to be fine, and either way, we're going to be able to deal with it. Now, what I find interesting is for those young couples, all of us, really, we were told it's going to be, you know, we were taught it's going to be a normal birth, you know. Right, Right. No matter what. So we're not forewarned that you don't want to scare people, but it would have been. It would be nice that when you're giving birth, especially for the first time, that there's an if then scenario. And because some people, when you hear about people, a birth happens, or even like, I have my best friend and his wife, their daughter has cerebral palsy. Because it was a. It was a mess up at the birth. She was over 10 pounds. It should have been a C section. Doctor didn't want to do a C section. So now cerebral palsy. So, yeah, they had that.
The birth was. The whole pregnancy was fine. And so what happened to them is all of a sudden, boom, baby's born and tubes and oxygen and all that. And it's like, oh, my God, what happened now? What? Yeah, and it would be nice if we help younger couples when they're for having their first kid, even though before they're pregnant, it's like, it's like, you know, I agree. Want to avoid any. Any of these, like, oh, no, what do I do now? What? What? You know, what now?
[00:15:38] Speaker A: Exactly. And just, you know, having them get into that conversation. Because it was. It was so. It was so interesting, Drew, because it was like, people would mention it. They're like, well, so I said, I. And I was saying, like, let me find out. And then the special was, yeah, you'll be fine. You'll be fine. You're like, okay, and you want you no matter what, right? At the end of the day, you do want to find. But fine at that time, the definition of fine at that time was one thing, and that's how I pictured it. And then when it wasn't, wasn't what I imagined.
It was hard, right? It was hard. Isn't anything when you're not prepared? Now, these days, I'm hoping more people are reading more, educating more, and knowing that if this happens, okay, it's going to be okay. It's going to be okay.
[00:16:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
The okay piece, especially as if when there's education and someone's offering you the education. Because the challenge for me, my son's 23. I started looking for stuff like now. And. And because he had. He had a. You know, you never know when. When and if something's going to happen. He had a rough time last year. And everything I'm looking at, it's like, I'm like, oh, wow, great. They have the. Oh, birth to 21. Great. You know, everything's birthed at 21. It's like, it doesn't just automatically miraculously, like, become different at 22.
[00:16:58] Speaker A: So true.
[00:16:59] Speaker B: Why do they stop? I don't know.
[00:17:00] Speaker A: I agree.
[00:17:01] Speaker B: That's where I'm trying to help people who have older. I mean, Even people are, like, not diagnosed or misdiagnosed. I just heard about somebody who was diagnosed with autism at age 30.
[00:17:11] Speaker A: You're right.
[00:17:12] Speaker B: It's not like they just got it at 30. They had it their whole life. And it's just.
[00:17:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's my daughter. Right. She was born with down syndrome, but there was nothing, no diagnosis of the autism until it's a year now. Just a year. And she's now 16.
So there was a. Yeah, so there was 15 years of us not knowing, although I could feel it. I'm like, you know what? Her tendencies are this.
[00:17:38] Speaker B: Right.
[00:17:38] Speaker A: You know, the things that she would do are this. And now we're learning together. And I have to say, I'm not the only one. Drew. I just met another family. Same thing. Her daughter's a year older, and she said the same thing. Chris. They're thinking she has autism. We're getting her. I'm like, oh, okay. I said, okay, I'll share what I've been doing. And so we're kind of starting our journey on that, Drew, right now. But, you know, knowing it, I have to say, has been a relief. It's confirming things I knew confirm. And now it's kind of opened up a little bit more doors of how I'm going to approach things. Because before you're like, I'm not really sure why. How can we help her? But now it's helped, so I'm still putting positivity with it.
[00:18:16] Speaker B: Well, we got. We. I mean, there.
Any child is amazing.
And I. I found that the neurodivergent thinking is, to me, unbelievable. My. My son is. He's the Asperger spectrum thing. But, I mean, cognitively, he is teaching me so much, and I'm. I'm challenging myself to change the way I think when I parent him, you know, and sit with him and talk with him, because there were times I was driving him nuts, and when I finally he calmed down, he would say to me, dad, when you rapid, rapidly talk about three topics within two minutes, I can't follow. It's got to be one topic at a time. I'm like, oh, geez. All right. Thank you for letting me know that. I'll slow down. I'll think of one topic at a.
[00:19:03] Speaker A: Time, and it's things we didn't know we do. Right.
[00:19:06] Speaker B: I had no idea. I went to three topic. I said, I didn't talk, dad, you did a. This, this, and this. I'm like, he didn't even see how I connected the three to me. It made sense, but it was like, I love that. Yeah.
[00:19:17] Speaker A: It's interesting with my, my daughter.
[00:19:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:19] Speaker A: When we ask her something or suggest something, her first reaction is no. And I had to realize that was just her way of pausing to, to soak in what I'm asking or doing. And then she'll answer and. But it's still hard because when she says no, I'm always like, okay, she don't want to do it. Then I'm like, Then she'll be like, yes. And I'm like, oh, wait.
And so I had to cue in our family, her support groups at school, saying like, just letting you know, when she says no initially, it's not really no. It's just her saying, wait, let me, let me think about it.
[00:19:48] Speaker B: You know what it is too, and I agree with you. It's, she's going to give herself time to think about it. It's, it's a safety net. It's a security measure. It's that, it's that fight or flight. Right?
[00:19:59] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah, yeah.
[00:20:00] Speaker B: No, no, Let me, I need, I need my space. Let me, you know, because, you know, they, the overstimulation I'm learning is, is what they, that it happens and then they just can't control, you know, it and, and what you'll find out. You'll notice that as she gets older because Matthew's 23 now. The other yesterday, he went to his first day of community college and he said he actually was one of the happiest days of his life, which made me one of my happiest days. But he said to me that, that when he got back, because he did, he did that. Plus he had a physical training session like at 4:00'. Clock. So he had two big things in one day and it takes a lot of time, a lot to, for them to prepare mentally for just one thing. So he was exhausted and he admitted, I'm really, I'm overwhelmed. Over stimulated. He used the word overstimulated and he said, he's actually told us what it, what his brain feels like. It's as if fireworks are going off on his brain and he just can't stop them. And yeah, like, geez, I know.
[00:21:04] Speaker A: And, and imagine that also with also other sensory overload. You know, it's one thing for information to fill your brain at a certain pace, but then you're, you're feeling the sunshine, the wind that you're, you're hearing sounds. It's too much. It is very much. A lot.
[00:21:19] Speaker B: Yeah. And then the, you get the Emotions on top of it, he had the mix of, of scared and excited.
They're two different emotions, yet they release the similar type hormones and feelings. So it's like, it's exacerbated because you're feeling both. Yeah, it's unbelievable.
[00:21:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:38] Speaker B: But so, so 16 puts her in sophomore.
[00:21:43] Speaker A: Yeah, well, she's gonna be a junior now. She's just started.
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:21:48] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:21:49] Speaker A: But the good thing is, like you said it, all of this, there's always good about it. So what's the good to me? You know, there's so many, but one is, like you said, taking stock of how do I communicate, how do I, you know, have the patience to just make sure I'm clear and I understand what you want and that realizing there's many ways to communicate. I don't always have to talk to her. I can show her something. I could, you know, have her feel something and it's, and it will come across the same way. And that's been very helpful to use in many different circumstances when I'm helping other families where I'm thinking, okay, just want to see how else can I reach them. What are better ways? Right. And there's no wrong way. It's just different. Sit.
[00:22:35] Speaker B: Right. It's different. Different.
I love the term different. Unique.
I like, I don't use the word disabled. Differently abled.
[00:22:44] Speaker A: Yes, differently able. I like that.
[00:22:46] Speaker B: It's like words do.
[00:22:47] Speaker A: I do find though, that, you know, each group has their own word that they like to use. And I'm, I, I, I do get flustered.
Know what's the right word? I don't know, you know, what might be right for me and my family may not be right. So it's, you know, you're just trying to, you know, because you're trying to be so sensitive to everything. But there are times where if I use the word disabled, it does give me a little bit of a pause. But I'll use it because of whatever special needs or near all of that. So I try to be respectful and I, but I always like to learn. I always want to know. You tell me what's the best word? Right. And I, I go with it.
[00:23:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm with you 100%.
So what? Let's say, so when you were you, when did you go into or know you wanted to be an attorney?
[00:23:35] Speaker A: So it's funny, I was 12 years old, and when I was in school, one of my best friends, we were just chatting about what to do. And I really, I have to tell you, from first to Fifth grade, I would just. I just went through school. I didn't do much. I just went through the motions. Then in.
If she ever listens to this. My friend, her name is Kathy, sixth grade, we matched up. You know, we were the same classroom. And I just thought she was so kind, so hilarious, and she was super smart. And there was a time where the teacher was pulling out exams and reading scores, and I just went, oh, my goodness, I better study. I don't want her to think, like, what a dummy, this friend of mine, you know? So I. You know, then I took it a little more seriously and focused, and I did well. And I remember chatting with her, and she put that in the range. She goes, chris, we should be lawyers. And I didn't know what a lawyer was. I'm just like, sounds good to me. I said, what is that? She goes, oh, you get to talk to people, and you can help people, and you. You can, like, make rules. And I just said, make rules. I like making rules. But I was really shy. So then that feeling, you know, was in and out. I thought I wanted to be an eye doctor. Then I took chemistry, and I said, oh, this is not for me. I don't like this at all. I don't like this at all. So went to college, and then I started getting the law bug. I. There was an opening at Community Medical center, which is a Toms River Hospital here, okay? And for my summer job, I said, I'll. I'll work there. So I was in the management, but then they put me in the law department, and they said, hey, we need help answering stuff. And there were forms and there were paperworks and things about, you know, law stuff. And I started reading. I thought, like. And I started asking questions like, well, what's happening here? What happened? And I thought it was so interesting to find out, well, here's the rules of the hospital. And this is where someone thought something went haywire. And I loved reading that, and it just stuck with me. And you know, what kind of lawyer? I didn't know. But I just love that idea of helping someone, knowing that. And I have to share with you. Jerry Seinfeld had said, lawyers are the people who know the rules. Like, if you're playing a game, and they're. The lawyers are the ones who know how to rule the rules are, and how to play the game. Everybody else just kind of plays it, and we're the ones to tell you that was wrong, that was right.
But I don't know. I kind of like that. And I. I'M a big reader. I love reading.
And so. And family used to laugh, too. If we were to play a game, they're like, well, let's just wait for Christine because she's gonna read all the rules.
[00:25:51] Speaker B: I did.
[00:25:52] Speaker A: I would always read all the rules. I said, all right, this is how we're gonna play. This is what's going on, you know, because we would just wait because I'm not reading all that. Christine will read it. So, yeah, so it really was there where that feeling of right and wrong and the feeling of being so helpful with certain things that are sometimes plainly in front of us. There are things that are written, there are things that are there, but a lot of times we may not be aware of it. And I love looking into that and saying, like, huh. It may be. You know, this is probably how it might be read black and white, but this is how you apply it. And I thought, that's fun to me. I. I do like that. The application, helping people, you know, and then, you know, eventually went to law school. And one of my favorite classes was. It was called civil.
Civil rights class. At the time, it was called the cla. It was mental disability class. Oh, yeah. It was interesting. They changed the name since I graduated.
And it was a clinic where we would help many people in the community who may have had low income, but they were being challenged of being either rendered to be incapacitated. Do we do a guardianship for them? A conservative. So that was my first time learning about that and learning the rules and how some of those rules are really very, very restrictive, very complicated. And a lot of it was people who may not. Who should not have been, say, committed. And we were in charge. This group of lawyers, we work for free. We go through the school to set the rule, set them, set them free to break the commitment.
[00:27:22] Speaker B: Really?
[00:27:23] Speaker A: Wow. And that was very. I love that. That was really one of my favorite classes. I did well with that. And so that always was in the back of my mind.
And then, you know, throughout my career, I did work for.
I started out with insurance, defense firm. Then I learned matrimony. I really learned a lot of different areas of law, Drew. But at the end of the day, once I opened up my firm, I realized there's a certain type of law that I really enjoy. And that was really with the wills and the trusts and. And, you know, I've always done real estate, so that's always been the back. You know, we help people buy and sell homes or businesses.
And then as my, you know, career evolved and then my daughter was born. Yeah, that's when I realized that, you know, there is a special area of law to help those who have a loved one with special needs.
And sadly, it's complicated, so a lot of people stay away from it. So to find people who really know how it works is. It was challenging, you know, but that's been my joy to focus on that and to really see what we could do to make sure everyone's well aware of the resources available and, and how it works. And I like to just do it simply, you know, there's no need to complicate things.
[00:28:38] Speaker B: Absolutely. You know, it's great too. Now you're going, you're living through it, and as you're learning, you're able to help your clients with the special needs trusts and all that kind of stuff.
[00:28:48] Speaker A: Absolutely. You know, because it's one thing to create it and you see it.
[00:28:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:52] Speaker A: But now we're putting. I know how it works because I need it to work. I want it to work. And then I'm always thinking, okay, so now something happens. How is it being funded? Because I want to make sure it's going to work, you know, and my husband, who's not a lawyer.
[00:29:05] Speaker B: Right.
[00:29:06] Speaker A: I have to explain it really well because he's just like, what's happening?
So if he gets it, then I know we'll all get it.
[00:29:13] Speaker B: I love it. And you explain it to him in lay persons or did you have to. Yeah, speak stuff.
[00:29:19] Speaker A: But isn't that the best way to learn? Right. When you teach other and explain it.
[00:29:24] Speaker B: Absolutely. In the way they can understand that's the best way to teach?
[00:29:27] Speaker A: Oh, yes, 100%. But it's been a joy. I love focusing on all of that and really making sure that everyone's comfortable and it makes sense.
[00:29:36] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
So have you, have you gotten a special needs trust for your daughter yet?
[00:29:43] Speaker A: Yeah, we do. We have it. Yeah, we have one set up already.
And you know, what's been the issue is when I help families, educating them, that there's not just one type of special needs trust, there's really three kinds.
[00:29:56] Speaker B: Right.
[00:29:57] Speaker A: You know, and finding out what's the. The best one for them, depending on their circumstance, what's happening. And that's always the eye opener, you know. And then sadly, there's been many situations where people think they have a special needs trust and we review it like, oh, it's not. Or they think they have one and.
[00:30:13] Speaker B: Not the other, or they think it's funded already or. Or they never learned how to Fund it. It just.
[00:30:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:20] Speaker B: There and yeah.
I like how your firm, you and your firm explain what the difference is between. Are between all day. Because I think I'm going to be doing my, my son's special needs trust with you and I. I'm gonna go for the, the standalone third party supplemental.
[00:30:37] Speaker A: That's it. You got it. Oh, I love it. You got the lingo.
A plus. A plus for you. But you know, with that aside, you know, the idea is that, you know, I don't. That's nice that we're use those fancy terms by end of the day, I want to make sure we know what this tool does, how it works and how it will just make sure my child is safe. That is it. At the end of the day, you know, we want them to thrive and we want them to be protected. That's it. That's all I want to know.
[00:31:06] Speaker B: Protection and security.
[00:31:08] Speaker A: Absolutely. That's it.
[00:31:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Them and their money and. Yeah, because that's like what, what really amazes me about this whole process. And I'm learning as I go and I've made mistakes, but even with I, I finally learned about what SSI is and I made the mistake of volunteering that he had non matured bonds.
[00:31:30] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:31:31] Speaker B: And then they said, oh well, those would be fifteen hundred dollars. So now he got denied just because they said he had 4, 100 bucks in 2000. With this economy, $2,000 is the. Is. Is horrible. Come on, that's ridiculous.
[00:31:43] Speaker A: That number has stayed the same for decades. Joe. I don't even want to get it.
I'm like, I go into like this awful range.
[00:31:53] Speaker B: It's like chalk on a chalkboard. 2000.
[00:31:55] Speaker A: It's so. Yeah, it's terrible.
[00:31:57] Speaker B: And then I learned about the able account, which I laughed when I learned where. How it came. So it's a government account.
One government area hiding money from a different government area. So it doesn't affect the benefits.
[00:32:11] Speaker A: Why you just change rules? Why do you have to create that? You know, honestly. Right.
[00:32:15] Speaker B: Add another department and accounts. And I got to do able account. And I even learned like you be like all different trusts. Like the able account would be money that they can use right now for their whatever. And then if they get a job, then put it in a regular trust and then if they have special needs, then get a special needs.
Yeah, sorry. All right.
[00:32:40] Speaker A: It's terrible. No, it's really bad. And you know, because I'll chat with families and they'll say like, oh, I have this one tool and they say, Chris, Is it possible that I might, if I have this one special needs trust, I might need another one? I go sometimes, depending. I've met families that have all three. You know, whatever things are going on. And it's, you know, and gets my chest tight because it doesn't have to be complicated, but it's what we're dealing with. These are the cards that we have. So my job has always been to keep the cards in order and making sure the cards make sense and that you always have the winning hand.
[00:33:13] Speaker B: I mean, love it.
[00:33:14] Speaker A: Name the game. That's it.
[00:33:16] Speaker B: True.
So your optimism, I mean, I feel it through the screen.
So. So personally, professionally, tell us about your. The Mattis Law Group and what I know, like some law firms don't have certain things do. What is what, what services does your firm provide?
[00:33:38] Speaker A: Absolutely. So I always like to say we're a boutique law firm and we are, you know, we're 15 and it just happens to be. We're all women. It wasn intentional for attorneys, including myself. And we have a very strong support staff that is in combination of paralegals, legal assistance, and our admin assistants. And really we focus on two things, wills and trusts as well as real estate. That is it. We don't do personal injury. We don't do bankruptcy. We don't do family law.
Do we have knowledge about those things? We do because of our backgrounds. A lot of us, we're blessed to be working with other firms that have had this information, but not proficient enough that that's all we want to do. We're not going to sit and do a divorce for someone, but at least we will be able to highlight and make sure that if you're having a divorce, please be careful of this and make and how it intertwines with what we do with wills and trusts and at the big time, you know, in the big picture. Drew, I've always said our purpose is to protect families, especially those with a special needs loved one, so that they could have a lifestyle that they deserve. That is it. That is my mantra. That is what I want them to do. And yes, we help all different types of families, typically atypical.
And, you know, when I say special needs, you know, that is really my favorite niche. The other attorney in my firm, her name is Chris Gursky, she loves to help those who are older protect their assets from nursing home care. That is her forte. She is, I'm telling you, hands down, probably the best in the state. I'm very proud of her. And our other attorneys are just as good. And they're very well versed in that. And I think what makes us different is that human side of us. You know, we all know, you know, that everyone's busy, there's no judgment, and all we want to do is help. That's it. We just. We try to be as friendly, as close and personal as possible, any way we can.
[00:35:38] Speaker B: I love that.
Anything else that you want to tell the audience about?
[00:35:42] Speaker A: No. I mean, if anything, you know, I always share with everyone that whoever you decide to work with, whenever, it doesn't even have to be in Lord, but any professional, ask questions, but also go with your gut. You want to feel comfortable, you know, and at the end of the day, you want to make sure you understand what you have and that you understood what all your options are. You know, I remember when I had bought a car. This was years ago.
Bought the car, and I was happy. And then I saw a friend of mine, bought the same car, but she had, like, a sunroof. And I said to my husband, I go, hey, she has a sunroof. He goes, yeah. I go, I didn't know we can get a sunroof on this. He goes, well, you didn't ask. And he goes, you don't like sunroofs anyway. And I just said, but it would have been nice to know that that was an option. And that's why I always think about when I help my families. I always say, this may not apply to you, and I don't want to confuse you, but just letting you know, this is another tool that's out there and sometimes pleasantly surprised. Oh, I didn't know that. I. I think that'll be helpful or saying, yeah, not. Not for me, Chris. All good. All good. But I think, you know, you want to feel satisfied that I got the best plan for me.
[00:36:43] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:36:43] Speaker A: That's it.
[00:36:44] Speaker B: You know, it's interesting. You were. You were about to mention before, you mentioned three types of trusts, and I. And I. I'd like to go there if. If you're okay with that, please.
[00:36:51] Speaker A: Yes, let's do it.
[00:36:52] Speaker B: You spell out for the audience, let's say. Let's say they have no clue. Yes. Like me.
What are the three types of trusts?
[00:37:01] Speaker A: Absolutely. Well, let's just. Just to back it up a little bit. So when people hear the word trust, sometimes it does get overwhelming. It's just a tool. It is just a tool. And it's a tool that I can create, my firm creates where it can help you do something.
So there's. There's so many different types of trust. But when I create a tool that it's helping a family with a special needs loved one, there's three ways we can help.
So there is a special needs trust that can help a loved one if they have their own money. Say we have a loved one who was in a devastating car accident, and as a result, they have a large settlement. But if they were to receive that settlement, even if it's a hundred thousand dollars, the problem is, Drew, that would knock them off the benefits that we were mentioning before. Ssi, Medicaid. They are called means tested, meaning that you can only have a certain amount of assets and income in your name. If you have more than that in here, more than 2,000.
Terrible. I'm just pausing for effect.
But you will not get ssi. You will not get Medicaid. And what do you have to do? You're going to have to live off whatever the settlement is. And, you know, between you and me, you know that if it's 100,000, no matter what the money is, it will go fast.
So there is a tool that our firm can create, first party.
And we put the funds in that trust.
Now, that money can be used for our loved one with special needs, but it will not be countable against them, meaning it will not knock them off their benefits. So that's the exception. It's kind of a box to protect that money. So that's first party, because it was our loved one's money. It was his settlement, his car accident, his pain and suffering. Now say that we want to give money. Like I say, you know, with my two daughters and my daughter, I want to give her money when I die. The problem is, if she inherits money from me, she will lose her benefits because it'll be more than 2,000. So I will create a special needs trust. But it's called third party, Drew, because it's coming from another person, a third party, me.
So you always have to ask the question, where's the money coming from? So if the money is theirs, it's first party. If the money's coming from other people, it's third party.
And, you know, and so that's the big difference. And one of the things we have to be aware of is say our loved one passes away and there's money left in the trust. If it's first party, the balance typically goes back to the state.
If it's third party, that can be designated by anyone else you want. So in my situation, if sadly, something happens to my daughter and there's money left in the trust. I want the balance to go to her sister. Or you can have it go to a charity or to anybody you want. No problem. You have the control not to get too much in the weeds. But I've always shared with clients, if you think your child might need this type of trust, I, I, it's so important to create it now while you're alive because then it's third party and the state is not involved.
Many times we have clients come to us and say, chris, my, my mom, dad died. I'm like, I'm sorry. And they left money to us. I was like, oh, that's good. But if my brother takes his share, he's going to lose his benefits. I'm like, oh, well, was there a trust? No. I can create the trust now, Drew. After mom and dad died. But it's first party. Why? The money is already his. They're dead, they're his already. It's his inheritance.
So now it's first party and now the state's involved. So I've always told clients, if you think that you might create it now, just create it out. Because then as long as it was created while you're alive, third party, state not involved.
[00:40:54] Speaker B: Okay, good.
[00:40:55] Speaker A: That's a big deal. Now the third type of trust is called a pooled trust. Pooled trust is where a nonprofit typically is the one controlling it. They'll have one big account and in it, so that's the pool. Right. To put all the money in there, they can have 10 families and then each family has a little sub account and the non profit will manage it. This is typically when you may not have too many funds. You don't have a person that you want to be the trustee to control it. Right. Because there's person to control it. So you would have a non profit do it. There are nuances because sometimes if there's money left, the nonprofit takes a portion, the state takes a portion, and then perhaps another person. Every non profit is different. So you want to look into it. Some better than others, but those are the three, three different kinds.
[00:41:41] Speaker B: Okay, so, so that helps. So, so let's look at the, the third party then. Why am I saying I would want a third party?
Stand alone. Yes, supplemental, absolutely. What am I saying? In labor.
[00:41:56] Speaker A: Yes. So one of the big terms that you want to look at, you're focusing on the word supplemental. These trusts, these tools are created to hold money, but the money is not to replace document to replace your benefits. Right. So if I have just, just using easy numbers If I have a hundred thousand dollars in this trust, it doesn't mean I'm using a hundred thousand dollars to pay for all my medical and everything. If that's true, if that is to supplant, then we don't need the benefits. But we're saying it's to be used in supplement to. To enhance. So that's the word supplement. Right. Typically, you also use that word because it's third party, because we're saying, hey, I don't have. This is money from someone else. I have benefits, but this is from someone else, and it's helping me along. And the reason why you want it to be third party is because you can control the balance. You can control if something sadly happens to our loved one who gets the balance. But standalone means it's a separate form, Drew, and it could be effective today.
Meaning if you have other loved ones who say, like, hey, can I leave money to your son in my will already? You can do it today. It already has. It'll be set up. Can I assess a trustee and can I open up a bank account today? And maybe I want to put money in today? You can.
The other third party is called a test testamentary, and that means it's built into your will. And those are good too, but they don't really exist yet, and you can't go to a bank with it. And no one can really leave anything to it yet because it doesn't exist.
So we've recommended those when people are maybe not sure what they have or they're not sure if they really want to go through, but at least they have something built in just in case to make it third party.
[00:43:41] Speaker B: Okay, so then, so then if I have a will, and this could be hypothetical, or it could be true, I'm not going to tell you.
Let's say I have a will. And in the will, instead of the beneficiaries being the names of the individual three kids, the beneficiaries now are a trust. That's my name. The Drew Trust. The Drew Trust. The Drew Trust. All three kids.
[00:44:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:05] Speaker B: Now I have that. Then I start a special needs trust, standalone supplemental, for my other kid.
Do I need to change anything in the will to make sure it doesn't go into the Drew trust that's in the will, and instead for him, it goes to this other one.
[00:44:22] Speaker A: I always picture the trust standalone. Trust is like your. Your glass and your will is the picture. So whatever we pull, put in the picture, we're pouring into something. So if I'm going to Pour it into a special needs trust. I better put in the directions in the will where I'm pouring it to. So you do have to update it to be clear. Right. Because if you just say it's good to three people, we want to know, well, I didn't know there was a container.
[00:44:48] Speaker B: You know, here's another one that. So let's say the will is with one law firm and the special needs trust is with a different law firm. Then what?
[00:44:59] Speaker A: So, I mean, it's possible to do that.
So it's very important for the two law firms to talk because you want to make sure everything works smoothly. But typically it is probably the best way to work with one firm so that everything is uniform, everything is working the same. You know, it's like being in a boat, but I'm using a metal ore here, the wooden oars up the front, and then I'm just using a piece of plywood in the back. I don't know how fast I can go. I don't know how smooth the ride's going to be. I'll get there. But I think for a smoother ride, you want it all uniform. You want one boat all the same, oars moving the right direction.
[00:45:32] Speaker B: Makes sense. Makes sense. Well, I thank you. And the audience certainly has captured the essence of, of Christine Mattis and they're going to want to get in touch with you. So gang, go to mattislaw.com M A T U S law.com you'll find everything you need there to get in touch with Christine and learn about her law firm.
I have two questions for you. You ready?
[00:45:57] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:45:58] Speaker B: All right. You're sitting in your happy place and you're sitting down with 7 to 10 year old Christine and you want to give her advice about life. What are you going to tell her?
[00:46:08] Speaker A: Not to take things too seriously.
[00:46:10] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:46:11] Speaker A: That you should focus on the positive.
And yes, I know it's cliche, but everything always works out at the end. Everything. Always worth all the worry. I was a worry wart when I was younger.
Still can be.
[00:46:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
That's a beautiful advice. Okay, different hat.
Now you're young Christine, the young entrepreneur, young businesswoman. You want to give advice to her.
Business advice. What are you going to tell her?
[00:46:42] Speaker A: I would tell her that you're doing the best you can and focus on what you like doing.
You don't have to do everything.
And I would say that young Christine probably was smart in saying focus on the 8020 rule that 80% of the good things you do is created by only 20% of the focus that you want to do. So 80, 20 rule is a huge, huge benefit to know.
[00:47:11] Speaker B: Okay, Wonderful, wonderful. Well, I thank you for that wonderful advice to young Christine. I hope she takes it.
And, you know, I want to thank you for coming on. I want to thank you for coming into my life, for being the human being you are, and for doing all the wonderful things you're doing for not only your clients, also for your daughters and your husband and everybody else you touch.
[00:47:33] Speaker A: That's so kind. Thank you, Joe. And thank you for doing this. I mean, you are such a motivation, inspiration to so many people who listen. I mean, I listen to your podcast and you.
I don't know where you get your drive and your energy, but you do bring on a lot of people who are just an inspiration. And I thank you so much.
[00:47:53] Speaker B: It's my pleasure. Thank you so much, Christine. Everybody out there, please. I want you to take care of yourselves.
Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, please subscribe and give us a review to help others find it.
I'd like you to answer the this question.
Are you living the life you want to live, or are you living the life others want you to live? I'd like you to think about that for a second because I strongly suggest you live the life you want to live. If you want to learn more about what I stand for and my services and how I'm able to help many men get out of their own way, please go to my website at www.prophetcompassion. com.
Feel free to also email me at Drew at profitcompassion. Com. I'd love to have a conversation with you.
Take care of yourself and choose to write your own story instead of letting others write it for you.
