[00:00:06] Speaker A: Welcome to from caving in to crushing it, the podcast for those who find themselves immersed in adversity and choose to write their story instead of having others write it for them. I'm Drew Deraney, and I'm your host. Today's guest is Troy Musser. Troy Musser is a pretty open book when it comes to talking about ministry of various types. He has experience in prison ministry from a chaplain's perspective and also from the perspective of providing childcare for women who are incarcerated. Troy loves talking about God's redemption.
Troy, it is such a pleasure.
I thank God every day that you're now in my life, my friend. It's so great to have you on. Thank you so much for coming on.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: It's great to be here.
[00:00:52] Speaker A: Now I'll let the audience know that Troy certainly was kind of reluctant to come on if it was about promoting himself. So I said, it's not about promoting yourself. And as you'll learn about Troy, it'll be about promoting the ministry and the message that really God has put through him that he is promoting here. He's not promoting himself and I'm not promoting him. We are promoting his message. So there's that disclaimer for today.
[00:01:22] Speaker B: Appreciate it.
[00:01:23] Speaker A: Absolutely. So, Troy, we are taught at a young age, and it's nobody's fault, and it wasn't malicious, that life is linear, that if we do a plus b plus c, d is going to happen. And that can't be further than. Further from the truth, because we know that stuff happens in life that gets in between those letters and kind of derails whatever our plan is. And life is circuitous. So for you, if you could reach back as far as you need to and think of that defining moment in life that was either a tap on the shoulder or a two by four upside the head that said, hey, Troy, you don't have to live the way you're living.
I'm giving you a message here. You have a decision to make, retreat or move forward with living your life differently. Can you think of something like that?
[00:02:14] Speaker B: Yeah, the best I can equate is probably a tap on the shoulder.
Probably a tap on the shoulder. I was born and raised in a christian home, great family, father was pastor all of my life.
And really not. I don't have a childhood war story to tell, if that makes sense.
[00:02:37] Speaker A: Yes, sir.
[00:02:38] Speaker B: Blessed beyond measure. And that doesn't always sell to some of the themes, podcasts, or stories, but it doesn't take away from what God can do and our need of him and so it was pretty much a tap on the shoulder. It was just delusions. The delusion of getting caught in sexual addiction of different kinds, pornography being one of them, and finding myself there.
And just the lies. When you realize the. Maybe, I don't know if you don't really realize that it's a lie during, but you realize it's a satanic lie after.
There is an after for the stories, right?
The conquering that God can do. So, yeah, it was a tap on the shoulder and just that God got a hold of me and really showed me that I'm living for less than what matters most, I guess, if that makes sense.
[00:03:40] Speaker A: I love that. Living for less than what matters most. I love that. That's wonderful.
[00:03:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:47] Speaker A: So that tap on your shoulder, what did it feel like? Obviously you had to be aware to notice it was a tap on the shoulder.
What was it? What made you realize that, hey, I need to listen to this and do something different?
[00:04:07] Speaker B: Actually, the best place I can put it was it's somewhat of more of a loan time in a job I had. I was a propane delivery driver, like a small truck doing residential deliveries. And it was the first job I had that I spent more time alone and born and raised in construction mostly had those jobs throughout my life.
And I was more alone and alone with my thoughts and things like that. It just felt like the holy spirit just pressed on me that there's something better. Like, God has big things in store for my life and often I equate, like, big things. Well, it's going to look like this. It's going to look like that. It's going to be super important. Well, it's going to be unique and it's going to be personal, I think is the answer to that. And it's going to be intimate because that's what he wanted with me. He wanted intimacy, and I wasn't giving him that.
[00:05:04] Speaker A: Right.
Okay.
To have that feeling that. Okay, intimacy. At what age was this and did you understand or what was your definition of intimacy at that time with God? Or did he lead you into what that would be?
[00:05:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I was 23. Four, roughly.
I'm sorry, I forgot the other question.
[00:05:34] Speaker A: The word intimacy at age 24, intimacy can mean many things. Did God instill a different definition that you were unaware of for the word intimacy and being more intimate with God? Yeah.
[00:05:45] Speaker B: So obviously based on the delusions that I was believing about sexuality and purity and things like that, just my objectification of women in general, which is real, like, we can spend a lot of time on that in our culture.
[00:06:00] Speaker A: Right? Sure.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: How poorly we've done in this culture about sex, what God has designed. Agreed.
What would you say? Messed up. What I butchered to some degree in my own personal life and what he wanted for my sexuality and what he wanted me to, what I view now as be a bit of an ambassador for.
Fast forward.
Fast forward. Many years I was a state chaplain in a sex offender facility.
And so that wasn't.
[00:06:34] Speaker A: Absolutely so. Okay, so let's fast forward to that because I definitely captured what you mean by intimacy because it meant many things at that time. So now let's fast forward because I definitely always like to thank who introduced us, and RJ. Johnson introduced us. And I am so grateful that Jack Gillay introduced me to R. J. Johnson, who introduced me to you, Troy.
Let's fast forward to that aspect. How did you, a, become a chaplain and then, B, you had opportunities to be a chaplain in many different places, physical places. How did it end up being prisons?
[00:07:18] Speaker B: That's a good question.
It started with being recruited to a ministry called New Horizon Ministries, based in Canyon City, Colorado.
We were originally recruited there. I eventually got married to my wife, which is from North Dakota. We lived in Pennsylvania for a year and a half, roughly, before moving to Colorado to serve in ministry. So we were recruited to this ministry for foster care. They do a lot of different care for the incarcerated population in general, one of them being caring for children that their parents, mostly mothers, are incarcerated. So we recruited that way. And then what I was going to do in my day to day outside of being a foster parent, was kind of. We were curious. And then this opportunity they had at that point, kind of newly started getting into prisons with chaplains.
It was decided that that's what I would do with my day to day.
I received, I think it was about a year, less than a year worth of on the job training, thankfully, in God's favor and the blessing of Colorado doc, they allowed guys like myself who didn't have a seminary degree to basically do on the job training through the ministry.
The program was approved. New Horizons provided this program to get chaplains inside. And so that's kind of how it started.
[00:08:58] Speaker A: Wonderful.
I was going to use the word ironic, and I'm not. I was going to use the word coincidence, and I'm not. The fact that the prison that you went to had to do with sex offenders and the fact that you weren't one yet, the stuff you were just talking about that you were doing could lead to that. Thoughts to behaviors, but it didn't. So now you're in as a chaplain for sex offenders in a prison. That happened for a reason, which I believe is the mission that God intended for you to help you reframe intimacy and intimacy with God. That's just my thought right now. So where do you go with that?
[00:09:47] Speaker B: Right? 100%. I kind of didn't close the loop on that intimacy thing.
What impacted me was intimacy with what God was with the Holy Spirit. Like you said, the tap on the shoulder was intimacy with me.
[00:10:01] Speaker A: First, I got it.
[00:10:03] Speaker B: Like, as a Christian, I believe that man. I often think like, man. He wants my attention. He wants me. He wants. Hey, eyes up here. I want all of you.
I want you. He has pursued us. He is so jealous of his glory. He wants us. And the intimacy, for me had to start with him to be able to get any other earthly relationship in line.
[00:10:31] Speaker A: Makes sense. Completely makes sense.
So now moving forward, when you now realize the alignment with the intimacy with God, and now you're aligned with God in that, and now you enter into these prisons to hopefully spread the message to the inmates.
Bring me there.
[00:10:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
So what is this kid who has had not engaged in a life of crime, has not, by God's grace, not gotten into drugs or alcohol or any of the vices, any of a lot of the common vices.
How in the world does he have any kind of message in prison? Is that what you're asking?
[00:11:12] Speaker A: That's exactly what I'm asking. How are these prisoners going to say, okay, I'll listen to this guy?
[00:11:18] Speaker B: It was really good for me.
It was really good.
I've had inmates thank me so much, and that's cool. To God be the glory. But it's changed my life going inside.
And not everybody will listen to you. If you say your background, maybe that turns the switch off.
We won't engage in relationship, and maybe I won't even get to God.
But there was many opportunities to just listen, show up. RJ often references that you guys showed up, you guys came back, you listened, you did a lot of things. You showed up, you listened, and you came back again. It wasn't like, whoa, I've heard that. I'm out of here.
[00:12:07] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:12:08] Speaker B: You come back again. You're patient. Well, you're christlike, basically, yeah.
So practically, though, to answer a little bit in a shorter way, I'm a bit of a sports nerd.
[00:12:21] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:12:23] Speaker B: There was many conversations that started and maybe even stayed on a relatively materialistic platform. They stayed there for a while, and maybe that meant going to the yard and talking to a guy about the broncos because I was in Colorado or whatever, maybe make a bet on push ups. I've done that a few times.
A chaplain probably shouldn't wager money with them in there, but wager a good 50 push ups if so and so wins. And it was just interesting to see how the temperature would change if you're talking to somebody who would never go to the chapel or never talk to a chaplain. Right. That's fine. Maybe we'll talk about. Maybe we'll talk about the Broncos for a while. Maybe we'll talk about family. Family is a big know.
[00:13:20] Speaker A: That's true. Because I firmly believe in order for trust to be able to form between two individuals who've never met, something's got to resonate. And if you elected to shove God down his or her throat, one's going to work. No resonate there. Right. The fact that you're a sports nerd worked in your favor, that you could start with something that would resonate with him or her and start to build that trust that this guy is not just a chaplain. He's also a human being who likes sports and he likes the same team I do. That's huge. That's huge.
[00:13:54] Speaker B: I'm an Eagles fan. I'm definitely not a Broncos fan.
[00:13:56] Speaker A: Well, you could pretend. All right, you're an Eagles fan. I'm a Jets fan. So sorry about last week.
[00:14:03] Speaker B: Keeping cold.
[00:14:07] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. All right, so tell me about how you met RJ, because he's been on this podcast, and we've already released it, so people will be aware of RJ and his story. How did you meet him? And he attributes you being one of the top three people in his life who moved him to God. I'd love to hear your side of that story.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: Well, I won't be held responsible for having his priorities screwed up, so whatever.
I did meet him at the facility that I trained at.
Yeah. When I first walked in the door, he was one of the first two people I met.
A lot of common interests. Hit it off on some of that sports stuff. Really? And a lot of common interests and just. I seen a lot of. I have a good friend that he reminds me of a lot, and so there was some of those things that. It's interesting. I've hit it off with a friend of mine for a long time, and there's some similarities, but just I think the reason he probably feels the way he does about me is I was inspired somewhat by, I think I wrote the forward in his book. Or one of those things about his tenacity for Christ. And he's a tenacious character.
He really chases after Christ. And so if you're in a bit of a discipling or mentorship or whatever that looks like role, that's attractive.
Well, he's going to keep listening.
[00:15:46] Speaker A: There was something about you in particular that did keep him grounded to pay attention.
[00:15:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I definitely enjoy that part of ministry. Like, hey, do you see that? Or just God moving and just not a big deal. Just keep your eyes open. We get discouraged.
We say what God is doing often.
We don't often just observe.
[00:16:14] Speaker A: Right? Absolutely. Well, let's speak a little about observation.
Describe what it was like when you noticed that RJ got it. Were you there at the moment that RJ got it? Because I know initially he was not God fearing God, nothing and resistant and all that, and something happened to get him to a. Allow the door to open a little bit. And then there was like an aha. Moment. Were you there when that happened?
[00:16:44] Speaker B: He knows dates better than me. I was probably a year after he actually got born again, but I was there in a lot of the baby in Christ, I guess you would say, boy, that's a good question.
I was there for the growth, I guess I would say, okay, it's like incremental.
There were definitely a lot of moments. I can't put my finger on them right now, but there were moments along the way.
Well, I think for everybody, oh, this is what God thinks about me. When our identity continues and continues to change and evolve and hopefully get hopelessly lost in Christ.
[00:17:26] Speaker A: Right.
[00:17:27] Speaker B: We realize, oh, this is what he thinks about me.
[00:17:30] Speaker A: Wow.
I get to one more question before I got a couple more questions, and I want to let the audience know how to get in touch with you.
If you could tell me the story where the most fulfilling feeling that you had with a prisoner, when you realized that you got through and helped them give their life up to God, do you have a particular story or how it happened or that feeling for you? That, wow, that was amazing?
[00:18:06] Speaker B: Oh, man, that is a good question.
And not a whole lot comes to mind. I've led a few people to Christ, to be fair, give God the glory.
But honestly, I think a moment that really sticks out because it was recent, and hopefully it's a little bit off track because someone I'm still ministering to from father's farm. And that's another organization standpoint here in North Dakota.
It was a moment just last week where the individual that's working for me he's got a great story and God has taken him on an interesting path. But he texted me because of the opportunities I was able to provide for him.
He was able to buy a house just last week. Wonderful. And he went in a year, a year ago. I forget how the message goes, but he was homeless.
[00:19:06] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:19:09] Speaker B: And it was one of those things where just a short period of time, roughly a year ago, he was homeless. And now he's a homeowner. He's rented all his life, which is fine, but he really aspired the things he was aspiring to and just what I was able to provide by God's grace for him. And just to see that having a home is a pretty big deal, having a place to call home and just provide that, well, it was one of those days where you don't wonder why you're doing what you're doing.
[00:19:39] Speaker A: I love that. That's exactly what I was getting at. And that was because I ramble.
[00:19:44] Speaker B: So I'm not sure.
[00:19:45] Speaker A: Oh, no, this is great. And audience, when I finally put the video piece of this, you'll see that smile on Troy's face, but you can almost hear him smiling there.
All right. So the audience has certainly captured the essence of Troy Musser. And I want to give them ways to get in touch with you directly or indirectly. And I know that there are three organizations that are near and dear to your heart that you would love the audience to support in any way, shape or form. And I'm going to give those three. One is new horizons ministry, and that would
[email protected] the second would be not mywillministry. And that's notmywillministries.com. And that's the one that R. J. Johnson, who we've been talking about, is affiliated with. And the third one is fathers farm, and that's fathersfarmnd.org. Go to any one of those three sites. And as far as a call to action, there are many different things you can give, do, or at least look through everything, see what resonates with you and help out as much as you can. We'd appreciate it.
Before we finish up, Troy, got two final questions. You ready for these?
[00:20:59] Speaker B: As I'll ever be.
[00:21:00] Speaker A: All right. Number one, Troy, you're sitting down with young seven to ten year old Troy Musser, and you want to give him some advice about life. What are you going to tell young Troy?
[00:21:17] Speaker B: I knew it was going to be hard to answer even when we were talking about it earlier.
I think, just keep a heart of gratefulness for what shapes you.
Good, bad, indifferent. A heart of gratefulness for what shapes you. Obviously, it's going to be hard to do that when it's bad in the moments, but, um, I guess, yeah. You're asking me now, what I see now in life is paying attention is a big one. Paying attention. Do you see what's happening? Do you see what God's doing? Because, man, I can bounce through life so often and just, I guess I've probably based off of my view of God walking with us through life, and he has so many ordained, what would you say, moments of impact.
He sets things up, and he's a God of detail. He's a God of. He cares. He's a God of the whole nine yards. And sometimes we glow right past him. Does it disappoint him? I don't know. Does God have disappointment? I'm not sure, but he has things set up that he wants us to see. He wants us to get our attention on that.
[00:22:42] Speaker A: I love that. All right, so put a different hat on. Now. You're sitting with young Troy mustser, the young businessman, young entrepreneur, and you got to make a living. So what kind of business advice are you going to give young Troy?
[00:22:59] Speaker B: Don't be a slave to how you've always done it.
[00:23:03] Speaker A: I love that.
[00:23:05] Speaker B: There's a lot of ways to execute. There's a lot of ways to show me the baby. Right. There's a lot of ways to get to means to an end. There's a lot of different paths. And first of all, don't be afraid to try one. And also, just because I'm in construction, I'm still kind of in that trade. There's a lot of things that I was raised in, or methods and even business decisions and stuff like, well, nope, this is how it's going to work. Well, I kind of view myself as a bit of a. So, yeah, be afraid to try and don't be a slave to how you need to do things.
[00:23:43] Speaker A: Love it. Absolutely. Well, Troy, I want to thank you for coming on. I want to thank you for coming into my world. I'm grateful that God has introduced us through RJ, and you're an amazing human being. Keep doing God's work. You're on the right path. And we thank you for your service to individuals who need to hear God's word. So thank you, my friend.
[00:24:06] Speaker B: Well, to God be the glory. May it all be about him, hopefully is what people.
[00:24:11] Speaker A: Absolutely.
All right. You heard Troy. Go out and live your best life. Be well everybody.
Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, please subscribe and give us a review to help others find it. If you find yourself immersed in adversity and would like to find support from other men in times of struggle, please become a member of my men's supporting men collaboration tribe by emailing me at
[email protected] expressing your interest and I'll get in touch with you. Speak to you soon.
