[00:00:06] Speaker A: Welcome to from caving in to crushing it. The podcast for those who find themselves immersed in adversity and choose to write their story instead of having others write it for them. I'm Drew Durani, and I'm your host. Today's guest is Ethan Chazen. Ethan Chazen, MBA, applies his experience leading teams through transformation by leveraging employee engagement to unleash people's untapped potential for lasting organizational success.
He possesses expertise and training in organizational behavior, strategic planning, new business development, client relationship building, employee engagement, team building, leadership, and emotional intelligence to optimize worker performance.
Enjoy the show, Ethan. It's a pleasure to see you, my friend.
[00:00:58] Speaker B: Likewise, Drew.
[00:01:00] Speaker A: All right, so I always like to thank the person who introduces me to my guests. You and I just had a conversation before we hit the record button, looking everywhere for the name of a human, and what we found out, it was LinkedIn.
We found each other's profiles on LinkedIn and sought each other out. And so it just shows the power of LinkedIn when you're looking to build relationships rather than just going for the sale. So I appreciate you for finding me, and I'm grateful that I found you. So thank you. Whoever created LinkedIn, why are you here, ethan? Well, you and I have talked about how when we're younger, people mean the best for us for the most part. And they say, hey, ethan. Hey, Drew. Life is linear. It's a straight path. If you do all the right things, a plus b plus c plus d is going to happen, and we believe it because we know nothing else, right? And then, inevitably, at some point in our life, sometimes early, sometimes later, something from the outside world gets in our way in between those letters, and we got to make a decision.
Now, I've often spoke of three different types of man. Man number one, defining moments in front of him, and he has no clue, doesn't see it, keeps going his own way. The life that's unfulfilling, or man number two, who says sees something, looks like it might be a defining moment, but in no, that's a barrier, man. I'm afraid of that. I'm not tackling that. I have you on because you're man number three, Ethan. You are the man who defining moment right in front of you, and you say, oh, stop up. That's an opportunity. That's an opportunity for a better life, Ethan. Grab onto that and let's do something different. And that's why you're here, my friend.
You have some defining moments in your life, and I would like you to reach back as far as you have to reach. And if it's two divining moments, tie them together. Something made you who you are right now. The stronger man. Can you tell us your story?
[00:03:10] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely, Drew. I mean, first and foremost, thank you for having me on the program. You and I have gotten to know. We've gotten to know each other pretty well since we initially connected, and I just really respect the heck out of everything you're doing.
[00:03:24] Speaker A: Thank you, sir.
[00:03:25] Speaker B: Man movement. And we just. Our paths and our journeys have a lot of similar threads to it, so I think that's why we connected so powerfully.
You know, I've had a number of every person, when they look at the narrative arc of their career and their lives, they can pinpoint a few, I hope, a few seminal moments, and I'm just. For purposes of brevity, I'll just focus on one that you and I really kind of spent the most time talking about. Sure. Go back to December 2008. I had just wrapped up my first and only year at the time with a major cable telecom company here in New York City. I was head of marketing. I had grown their revenue about 40% the year that I was there, and my reward was I was laid off.
[00:04:10] Speaker A: That was nice.
[00:04:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Congratulations.
[00:04:13] Speaker A: Thanks for all your work.
[00:04:15] Speaker B: Exactly. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. So I think this will resonate with a lot of people, especially our. For this audience, you're at a career crossroads. And mine was the company I worked out was talking to another company about merging. What is every big company when they go through that? Let's make the financials look really attractive. Let's lay off thousands of.
[00:04:39] Speaker A: Absolutely. Let's disrupt some lives here. Okay.
[00:04:41] Speaker B: Yeah, let's just. Yeah, I mean, that's the knee jerk american corporate reaction to short term financials. So, yeah, I came home that night, December 2008, couldn't sleep, was crying, spent a few weeks wondering about why that kept happening to me. And by that, I mean I spent 20 years in corporate America, my half in banking and financial services. I was downsized, right sized, laid off, whatever it was that happened to me as a man, as a middle aged man, the association of me and my self worth with the title I held and the work I was doing. And I had one of those come specific moments of abject clarity. And I said to my wife, I said, I can't do this anymore. I can't, every few years, have to reinvent myself because of external circumstances and me working for somebody else.
[00:05:38] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:05:39] Speaker B: My wife and I have known each other forever. We went to high school together.
She let me finish what I was saying, and then she said, and I quote, it took you long enough.
And so that, being your man number three, that realization said, I can go and find another job and be treated like feces, or there's got to be another door.
[00:06:01] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: The other door was, I said, hold on a second. What do you love to do?
What have you done your whole career that you love to do? What have you hated and what are you really good at? And is there any common ground? And for me, what I set out to do for the last 15 years since that moment in time was, I said, I'm going to go out, Drew. I'm going to go out. I'm going to help as many individuals and as many organizations to care about their employees, to release their people's untapped potential to create great cultures at work.
And that was my man number three, epiphany. That's what I've been blessed to do the last 15 years. I'm an organizational growth and transformation coach.
[00:06:43] Speaker A: I love it. Wow. All right, so I'm unpacking all of this because there's so much here that I want to talk about. Well, first I want to say congratulations for having a significant other like the one you have.
She's a treasure that many men don't realize are out there.
And many of us go into our relationships for all the wrong reasons, which is why there's greater than 50% of divorce rate there. It's all about why you go into a relationship and how you do it. So I would like to touch briefly on how you and your wife met. And I know you said high school, but I want to know, did she ask you out? Did you ask her out? I think you're going to have two different stories. But the reason I'm doing this is I want to hear that bond because I want people out there to see how it can be, because we all deserve the happiness you have with your significant other. So kick it off, man.
[00:07:43] Speaker B: Yeah, no worries. So, no, we weren't. We were in high school. Sweethearts by any stretch of the imagination. We were busy lusting after other people.
You know, we were in the same class, same year I started. I'm here in New York City. I went to college. For the first two years upstate New York was miserable. So I got on a plane, went out to California, finished up, and came back after the okay.
She and I have respective, had respective groups of friends, and we always ended up wherever we were going in the city, dance clubs, nightclubs, whatever, we always ended up because we had one mutual friend at the same spot. So apparently, one time I asked her out, and she said, absolutely not. And I think that was because of how much partying I had been doing earlier that night. But she said, ask me when you're ready. So a few weeks later, I saw her out and I asked her out. And it was Thanksgiving. She was the witch. I was the grim reaper.
28 years later, here we are.
[00:08:49] Speaker A: Wait, Thanksgiving or Halloween?
[00:08:51] Speaker B: I asked.
[00:08:51] Speaker A: I'm sorry.
[00:08:52] Speaker B: I asked her out on Halloween.
[00:08:53] Speaker A: Yeah, otherwise, you have an interesting Thanksgiving.
[00:08:56] Speaker B: Well, that was a frightening slip, so.
[00:08:58] Speaker A: Yeah, well, it was a Thanksgiving that you met her, saw her in Halloween, and I was.
[00:09:05] Speaker B: Halloween, 1990.
[00:09:06] Speaker A: I got it.
[00:09:07] Speaker B: I gotta get that one right.
[00:09:08] Speaker A: I love it. All right, well, you know what? Let's pause. Take two. No kidding. All right, so now. Now I know how you guys met. And I love that story. Tell me. Ask me when you're ready. You hear that, guys? Sometimes we're never ready, though. So she should have said yes right away. Anyway, I digress. So, Ethan, so you mentioned. I love this one, too. You went to college upstate for two years, hated it and went. So. So the decision to go to college in the first place, your belief system, or was that one of those. This is what you're supposed to do, right?
[00:09:43] Speaker B: No, man. I love this, Joe. And I love what you do so much, because that's kind of part of our discussion here today, is people being told, ostensibly by other people who care about them, you need to do this. And as you said, it's so linear. You graduate from high school, college. Well, you know what? There are other paths. And I was the prime candidate. As somebody who should have taken a.
[00:10:05] Speaker A: Gap year but didn't.
[00:10:07] Speaker B: I went to high school in New York City, one of the most ethnically diverse high schools in the country.
[00:10:12] Speaker A: Right?
[00:10:13] Speaker B: I went to upstate New York, where it was a very kind of homogeneous population. I didn't fit in. Wasn't right for me.
And I said, you know what I think, you know, it's kind of like this. Man one, man two, man three, man three said, this isn't right for me. I'm squandering a collegiate career, and I'm not happy. So I extricated myself from that. I took a year, I went out to California, worked full time, became a resident, and finished up my undergraduate degree and then came back. So, yeah, again, people tell us what they think is the right course of action. We follow because as you said, we don't really know better or the young man in us doesn't have the ability to question or say no.
[00:10:58] Speaker A: I am glad you said that because when we look at the human brain, the prefrontal cortex, the one that has the judgment and decision making part of our brain, doesn't develop, especially in men, till almost our mid, early to mid thirties.
So we don't have the capacity and ability to make good decisions at a young age. So we rely on others to tell us it's just a matter of when we realize that to make a change in our life. So thank you for mentioning that. So now, so you went, you graduated out in California, you came back to New York City. Then what happened?
[00:11:36] Speaker B: My wife and I started dating.
We were working full time. I actually, I believed at the time because I was told I, I had a lot of creative background and experience and great writer. You should go into copywriting, go into advertising, went into advertising, discovered immediately you lose the account, everybody gets fired or the person who's sleeping with some. So I spent two years here in New York City trying to find my way successfully. My wife decided to leave the city. My girlfriend at the time decided to go to law school in DC.
[00:12:13] Speaker A: Oh, wow.
[00:12:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I followed her down.
[00:12:16] Speaker A: You did? You went to DC? Okay.
[00:12:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Got engaged in six and I got a job offer back in New Jersey. And so we relocated from DC back to New Jersey and I spent, we spent 20.
[00:12:30] Speaker A: Oh, wow. All right, so, okay, so now you're back in Jersey. Did you ever have the entrepreneurial itch during that, the times in corporate or did that not enter your mind because he was never introduced to you?
[00:12:43] Speaker B: I had it every single day. He did listen to the internal dialogue voice.
Here's how you know that you're not doing what you love and you're not doing what you're intrinsically motivated on. Right. So I would literally spend nights and weekends going out and doing programs, giving talks at trade schools, community colleges, prisons, military bases. I was over on my off hours to, you know, what was inside of me that wasn't being fulfilled as I witnessed myself being treated horribly in corporate America. So I think I knew, except it took me a little while to listen to the inner voice.
[00:13:28] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:13:29] Speaker B: So many of us, and especially so many men in our forties and fifties are struggling with.
[00:13:33] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. And, you know, also there's a lot of fear in taking risks at the 40 and 50 year range because we all are concerned about the result. Now we can't predict the end result. And sometimes it's just best to trust yourself if you have the capacity to do so and just make that shift, and it's easier said than done. It took me a long time to really start trusting myself that I'm going to do what my guts telling me to do.
When did you launch into the entrepreneurial thing? How long ago was that?
[00:14:08] Speaker B: A few weeks after I had that epiphany where I had a conversation with my wife. So literally, January 1, 2009.
[00:14:16] Speaker A: So in January 1, 2009, when you had that epiphany, did you right away decide to jump ship or did you, like, work while you crafted what this next the entrepreneurial journey is going to be? Or do you just, like, dive in with nothing and then make it?
[00:14:33] Speaker B: Yeah, it was a combination of both, but it was more of the latter. So when I was downsized from that cable company, I had literally after I had a significant amount of introspection and decided, I'm not going to do that thing again. Been there, done that, I'm going to go out on my own. So it's kind of a leap and look or a leap of faith. But also I think it was predicated on what you asked before. I kind of knew based on what I was pursuing outside of work.
[00:15:02] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:15:04] Speaker B: And what I was starting to do on the side that nowadays they have a name for everything. They call it a side hustle.
[00:15:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:10] Speaker B: I leapt and then look to see if I would be okay. But I knew that it's something that inside of me I needed to do. I just had put it off for a while.
[00:15:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I mean, and I love that because we talk about, there's so much, so many words are overused now, but now we hear a lot about follow your passion and all that.
Follow your passion. And if you want to get paid doing your passion, you then learn to how to monetize something you're passionate about. It's not just doing something. You're passionate. You have to take massive action. You got to think creatively, out of the box, talk to people who've done it. And there's a lot of mistakes we make, right, as new entrepreneurs.
And the reason why I asked you that if you had mapped it out is because in retrospect, which I know we can't change, and we are who we are right now, if I had to do it again or I'm giving advice to somebody, surround yourself with people who have been there, done that and executed and are successful. Those are the people you tap for questions and advice.
And when you make the move, don't cut off your nose to spite your face. And what I mean is, make a decision based on emotion, not rash, not a rational mindset, when you just jump for the sake of jumping. But what you said is you took that leap, yet you knew somewhat where the direction was. You just had to really decide how to do it. Right. Your what and your why. It was just how. Jeff.
[00:16:48] Speaker B: Well, yeah. And I mean, what you say is so powerful because, you know, when I started out, I wasn't initially my practice a business coach, I was a career coach. What you just talked about of the notion of, look, you can pursue what you're passionate about, and you're not going to be successful if you're not good at it. Conversely, if you pursue what you're good at, but there's no emotional construct or force behind it, you'll fail in that regard.
[00:17:13] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:17:14] Speaker B: Intersection of what you're really good at.
[00:17:16] Speaker A: Doing that you love, that you love.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: Doing, where they kind of come together. That's your star, Jeff.
[00:17:22] Speaker A: And I love that because a lot of people believe it just happens. Well, it doesn't. You have to have self awareness and reflect and decide. Find out who you are first. Once you find out who you are, who you really are, and then you trash those self limiting beliefs that were tied to who people said you were supposed to be, that's when you know who you are and where you're going, and then you can devise how to get there. And that's what you did, probably without knowing you were doing it, that's what you did, and that's why you're successful now.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: So, yeah, you know, it's interesting because from your mouth to God's ears, I mean, that's probably the most important piece of advice that you just said. We can give anybody else if we were. If they contacted us and said, can you coach or mentor me through this very scary, painful process, especially as a mid career professional? I actually, because I had a background in marketing and because I felt like people who ostensibly love me so much, I felt giving me the wrong information, saying, are you sure this is the right time? There's no job security. They give you a million one reasons not to pursue your passion.
[00:18:28] Speaker A: Right?
[00:18:28] Speaker B: Because they don't have the vision and.
[00:18:29] Speaker A: They'Re, no, it's your dream, not theirs. How the hell.
[00:18:33] Speaker B: That's the whole thing. That's why I love what you said. So one of the things I did was I literally, I vetted my personal brand, if you can allow me. What that.
[00:18:42] Speaker A: Oh, please. Yes.
[00:18:43] Speaker B: Yeah. So I said, okay, what are the one word descriptions you want to be known for?
What do you think? Like, Drew would be compassionate. You're a closet teacher. You're a Sherpa. You're a morality ethics guide. You create a little word cloud of, like, five or six or seven word adjectives that say, this is the essence of me.
[00:19:03] Speaker A: Yep. Love it.
[00:19:04] Speaker B: And that's what I did. And then I. You go invent that by talking to, like, five or six people who know. Who know drew more than anybody. You say, quick, give me a few one word adjectives that you think best describe me. And the amount of kind of overlap is authenticity. And it was weird, man, because when I did this in early 2009. Yeah, I did mine. I did other people's, and it was like, boom, doing that periodically.
[00:19:32] Speaker A: I love that, you know? Yeah, that's a great start out, because.
[00:19:36] Speaker B: You don't know what you're going to know and don't know except this is your path.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: Absolutely. And I love that, too, because that's. That's one of the first steps towards not caring what other people think about you. When you outline what you think about you. Right. And you're not going to waver from that yet. You get somebody who you trust to kind of see if there's alignment. And once you bring the right person in to test that and there's alignment, it's beautiful. And so, all right, so now you knew who you were and the man you are now.
What are you doing now in your practice and in your personal life? That is because you faced that adversity and became who you are. And then we'll talk a little about what you're doing professionally, and then I want to promote you.
[00:20:23] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I love this. You know, we both love doing this on a personal level. It's really genuinely demonstrating to people who have stayed by my side and who have been there for me to be thankful and to express, literally express on a regular basis my appreciation for them being the people who are in my corner, because, you know, we've talked about this before. Not all of us are lucky enough to have those people, and that's where we get into danger. So I'm very, very explicit in communicating. And conversely, Drew, this is something I started to do recently where I literally removed two people from my life who are my best friends from high school who are toxic.
Your emotional construct, your emotional state is, and you gotta defend it. So that's the two things I've been doing on the plus and minus side of the relationship. Led is just making sure that I'm okay, you know, keeping my house strong in terms of. And I do that, by the way, I know you said we'll talk about professionally, but I'm also very explicit about showing my appreciation to people who have supported me when I started from nothing.
[00:21:35] Speaker A: Well, let's go into that. Go into that professionally. What are you doing professionally now? That's mirroring what you do personally.
[00:21:41] Speaker B: Well, you and I met because initially, after we got introduced through LinkedIn, you were kind enough to appear and give your expertise on my podcast, chasing the dream, where I'm now talking to people who, like us, are passionate about treating their employees well, creating amazing business cultures.
People have strong reputations for being thought leaders on workplace happiness, reducing trauma, stress, toxicity in workplace. That's kind of one thing, is to align myself with my tribe.
[00:22:13] Speaker A: Got it.
[00:22:14] Speaker B: Find the people who do what you do and love what you love.
[00:22:17] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah.
[00:22:18] Speaker B: And that's why you and I are speaking so.
[00:22:20] Speaker A: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, this is, you know, I could talk to you forever.
Forever is a long time.
[00:22:27] Speaker B: So it's an existential.
[00:22:31] Speaker A: So. So I'm going to. I want to promote you here. So, folks, you certainly have grasped the essence of Ethan Chazen, the human being and the professional and personal man he is. What he's offering is conversations.
Give him a call about any challenges you have, if anything resonates with you, really just a conversation. Ethan can be reached at. I'll give you his phone number and his email. And yes, I did get his permission to do so. You can reach out to ethan at 917-239-5571 or via his email at ethan at the chazengroup.com. And I'm going to put his website and his LinkedIn stuff will be in the show notes.
So thank you for allowing me to promote you, sir.
All right, so I have two questions for you to finish this up. Are you ready for them? Here we go.
[00:23:32] Speaker B: I don't know if I am, but fasten your seatbelts. Let's go there.
[00:23:35] Speaker A: Fasten your seatbelts on the first one. Ethan giving you the opportunity to sit down with seven to ten year old Ethan and you want to give him advice about life. What are you going to tell him?
[00:23:52] Speaker B: You and I have talked about this and this is really hard for me not to get emotional because I didn't have necessarily the strongest, emotionally supporting cast of parents.
So I would say to my seven to ten year old self, you're loved and you have everything that you need in life to be successful. And when you have those moments where you start to question yourself. Yeah, don't. Because trust the person that you're going to become. It'll be painful. It'll be a long journey.
But trust where you ultimately will get to.
[00:24:27] Speaker A: I love that. Absolutely love that.
Switch hats. You are now sitting with Ethan, the young entrepreneur or young businessman, and you want to give some advice about business. Now, what are you going to tell him?
[00:24:45] Speaker B: What you're thinking of doing, of going into business to help other people.
Spot on.
Don't lose sight of what, what your legacy is, which is going to be. How have you helped people to find their passion, to give them advice and counsel, to get from where they are to where they want to be. And trust in yourself that you can help organizations to figure out how to create an amazing place for people to shine. What you were looking for for 20 years and couldn't find, which is why you went out on your own, man.
Trust. Keep the faith.
Listen to your inner voice because that's the voice of greatest clarity.
[00:25:32] Speaker A: I love that. Trust your inner voice because that's the voice of inner clarity. Love that. Well, Ethan, I want to thank you for a variety of things. A, for being here, spending time with me. B, I'm grateful you're in my life as my friend, as my brother from another mother. And this will be one of many times that we speak. We've got a lot of work to do, you and I. I tell people that we are in the middle, middle nine of our career. Like, you know, golf is like front nine, middle nine, back nine. So as men in our middle nine, we owe it to also, not to just ourselves, but help out the people in their front nine and support the people in their back nine. Because we're all in this together, my friend. Yeah. All right. Thanks again, my friend. Love you, brother.
[00:26:22] Speaker B: Thanks, Drew. I love what you're doing. Keep the faith.
[00:26:24] Speaker A: Absolutely. Hey, take care of yourself, everybody.
Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, please subscribe and give us a review to help others find it.
I'd like you to answer this question. Are you living the life you want to live? Or are you living the life others want you to live? I'd like you to think about that for a second because I strongly suggest you live the life you want to live. If you want to learn more about what I stand for and my services and how I'm able to help many men get out of their own way, please go to my website at www.prophetcompassion.com.
Feel free to also email
[email protected] I'd love to have a conversation with you. Take care of yourself and choose to write your own story instead of letting others write it for.
