[00:00:06] Speaker A: Welcome to From Caving in to Crushing it, the podcast for those who find themselves immersed in adversity and choose to write their story instead of having others write it for them. I'm Drew Duraney, and I'm your host.
Hey, Rick. It's good to see you, my friend.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: Good to see you, brother. Drew, what's happening, bro?
[00:00:28] Speaker A: Oh, man, I'm excited about today, and I know the audience can't see this, but behind you, you have a pretty cool car there. Is that yours?
[00:00:36] Speaker B: Actually, it's Maggie Carey's wish car. She said, today one of our meetings, I want a purple Lamborghini. So I produced it.
[00:00:45] Speaker A: That's the kind of guy you are. You find a need. You feel a need. So I'm impressed. So it's great to have you. Have you on today, Rick, and I have heard your story, and I get emotional every time I hear it, and, you know, it's. It's. You are an inspiration.
I would love just to start off. Just to start off with that question, like, you got here somehow. If you could tell. Tell the audience your story, I would love to hear it again. And. And it's all yours, my friend.
[00:01:17] Speaker B: Sure. Thank you, Drew. And thank you guys for, you know, for popping in here, too. You know, appreciate the support, and I appreciate everything you're doing, Drew, in the world. When I heard you talking last week about what you were doing and how it happened in your own life that this community came together, I was especially touched again, as always, because it's, you know, it's a terrific story. And so thank you for caring enough to provide a place for men to, you know, to learn what others have gone through so that we can.
We can feel safe to, you know, make our own journey. So I appreciate what you've done for us.
[00:01:59] Speaker A: Absolutely. Absolutely, my friend.
[00:02:02] Speaker B: So, you know, I think that every time I talk about this story, you know, it has a different. It has a different point of view, and I'm looking through a different lens. But interestingly enough, where I am right now, I'm with some family down in Florida, and there's a young person here who has also had a difficult road very similar to mine in that his dad passed when he was a young boy. He was about 12 years old, so had also gone through some similar things. And so here I am, I find myself just kind of accidentally at a place where I'm staying with some family, and he's also a family member of one of the folks here. And so here I am with a guy who is 30 years old and I'm going to be 61. So I'm kind of looking at someone who is still dealing with some of the things that I dealt with. So to take you back, you know, I was very happy, pumped up, excited, enthusiastic kid, the youngest of three in an Italian New York family. And everything's going along pretty smoothly. I'm doing my thing and when I was about 10, I ran into my dad's bedroom one night and I said, hey, dad, you know, in school we were asked, you know, what would we want to do for a living when we grow up someday? So as a, as a depression baby, auto body man guy who really came up with nothing. And he said, son, I would be a lawyer. I said, why? He said, because lawyers have power and money and that's what you want. I said, okay, thank you. Dad ran out of his room, went back to school. Next day, I said, oh, I want to be a lawyer. So here I am. I'm going to college. I go to Iona College here in the local area. For those of you who are from New York, Westchester County, I go to Iona. I'm in pre law. And after my freshman year, my father, who was everything to me, my whole life, my world, he dies suddenly of a heart attack at 53. And I'm 19 and here I am. I got no GPS, I got no direction. Even though I had a great mom and brother and sister and plenty of support around me, I was completely alone when this guy died. I mean, literally our whole family crumbled. Our world disappeared in one day. And it was nothing we could plan for or have any warning for. He was the kind of guy who thought he was going to live forever. Here he was, 53 years old, in the prime of his life, had so much ahead of him and he was just dead in one hour. And I'm 19. It's my between, you know, going from freshman year to sophomore year of college.
And I can tell you, I still remember how I felt that day. I felt as alone, clueless.
I literally had no idea. Of course I was in shock, like any family member would be, but I in particular felt like I was never going to be able to make it. I was never going to be able to figure out how to go forward without this guy's guidance. And my father was very strict. He was very difficult. He was, you know, what you would consider, you know, like a really heavy handed Italian New Yorker born in the Bronx. His father died when he was 3. He had to, you know, survive on his own. So he was also Traumatized in a similar way as a young kid. So for him, I'm 19, and there was a part of me that said, well, I got to do the right thing now. I got to kind of take care of my mother and brother and sister, who were all older. And I just felt like they were so lost.
I wanted to move forward and take care of them during this really tragic event.
So in the beginning, I said, all right, I'm gonna just buckle down. I'm gonna be the man. I'm gonna step into my father's shoes. I'm gonna lead this family.
And so when I went back to school in. In the fall, my. You know, my father died in August. School started in September, started sophomore year. My mother said, no, you're going to stay in college. Your brother will run the body shop, whatever. We'll figure it out. But you are going to be a lawyer and whatever, and we're going to honor your father's wishes for you. Whatever. Now, meanwhile, funny thing is, I didn't want to be.
I just. I just wanted to be, you know, my father's son. I wanted to be whatever he wanted me to be. So I didn't even have a goal or an idea. I was just kind of programmed to follow what this guy, because he gave me good advice all the time. You know, everything was going well.
So, you know, it's funny to think back what might have happened had he lived. And, you know, but that's. You know, that's past history. So I go back to college, and, you know, I'm playing a card game. I'm kind of hanging out with my friends and some guys from the. From the dorm, and, you know, one thing leads to another. A little drink. Now, meanwhile, I was not a partier right before. One drink leads to another, leads to a joint, leads to some lines, leads to whatever, you know, I'm just. Because I'm literally in shock and depressed and grieving. I'm super vulnerable for all of these things. And, you know, so what do you do when you're either having a great time in college or you're struggling? You do drugs and you drink and you party, and you just do all the things that may seem like fun at the time. And they also feel very. They feel very good when you're numbing the pain.
[00:07:31] Speaker A: Numbing the pain.
[00:07:33] Speaker B: But what was happening was. And I didn't realize this was. I was hoping that I would die myself so that I could go with my father. The subconscious death urge was in full bloom. And. And ironically, I. I Maintained my schoolwork. I kind of hid it from everybody. Of course. People were always thinking, oh, this poor guy, you know, he just lost his dad. Oh man, we know how big a person he was in the community and all this stuff and, and how much Rick depended on him. And so I just kind of went down the worst possible road that I could at that time. And it got worse and worse and worse. But ironically, like any good entrepreneur, I figured out how to make the best of it. So, you know, began dealing and began doing all of the things to kind of put myself at an even higher level and, and, and, and maintain the ability to continue to use. And you know, in my particular case, it was cocaine. That was kind of like my drug of choice and it actually made me kind of mellow. So contrary to what other people who are using, you know, stimulants may be feeling, you know, very high or, you know, because I was such an enthusiastic and high person anyway, it had the opposite effect on me. So I'm the kind of guy who can drink, you know, a double espresso at midnight and go to sleep. So, so ironically, in my body, my brain chemistry and my body stimulants bring me down. Okay, so, so, so I, so I had, there was a, there was a double edged sword there in that I could do a lot of it and, and no one would even know. I wasn't jumping out of my skin. I was actually calming down. So people thought, wow, Rick is really handling this well. He's kind of, you know, almost like a Zen master about this. But it got worse and worse and worse. The people I was around from like 82, my father died in 81, maybe 82 to 85, 86. I graduated in 84 from Iona and I took over the business. So now I was in a position to even have a little bit of money, have a little bit of freedom. And, and I was just, I was literally on a destructive path.
[00:10:00] Speaker A: What happened to the lawyer idea back then?
[00:10:03] Speaker B: Because my father died. It died with him. I, I was with him.
[00:10:07] Speaker A: Even though your mother wanted to re. Have that go through.
[00:10:11] Speaker B: I, I actually, I actually got out of, got out of pre law, took my boards, was accepted to law school, didn't want to do it. I wanted nothing.
I wanted to just kind of be my father. So I wanted to take over that business.
[00:10:23] Speaker A: Got it.
[00:10:24] Speaker B: And I, and I begged my mother. She said okay. My brother was against it and I was really, I was really, I'm lucky I didn't get arrested or die any, any in any particular moment. So it was that bad. I, I, I don't know anyone in my particular circle who survived what I did, you know, and the kind of levels and the kind of people that I was around, it was just, it was, it was the worst possible nightmare for my family. My sister and my mother were begging me to try to straighten out. I just ignored them. I didn't hear any of the voices of the people who loved me. I was, I was literally on a path of destruction.
It's the best way to put it. Driving as fast as I could, being in the worst possible neighborhoods and, and with the worst possible people. I just kept attracting more and more of that, you know, the, the, the, the people who, you know, represented what I was doing. And it was, it's not something that I'm proud of, but it was just something that happened one day at a time. It was just, it was, it was the simplest path to destruction. And, and I, I was ignoring it because I was so, I was just lost. I was medicated and I was, I, I couldn't, I couldn't figure it out. I couldn't fix it.
[00:11:48] Speaker A: Right. And you had said you wanted to be with your dad, so you were, you were going to try anything it took to, to make that happen.
[00:11:55] Speaker B: I, I didn't mind dying. I did not particularly want to be arrested and go to jail, but I could have any particular night where I was and with what I was doing, it was very easy. I don't know how I didn't get arrested or, you know, so, so it's a miracle the way this whole thing unfolded, which is, I guess, why it's an interesting story.
And, and then one night I was, I was living in a house in, in Mayopac, kind of a bachelor pad, which was just like an opium den to the times 10 in, in like early 1986, I was, I got the mail. It's like 4:00am I've been up for like five days.
I got my mail on my coffee table in my living room. I'm sitting there in my underwear and I'm looking at the wall in front of me, looking at the tv, and I'm seeing like mice running up the wall and running down and they were not there. I was hallucinating, watching mice running up and down the wall. And I'm thinking, oh my God, what's going on here? And I open a letter from my high school biology teacher. Okay, now this is a guy who my sister had for bio 10 years earlier. I had a great story with him.
I'll just give you a brief. When I got into high school biology in ninth grade, I was a bit rambunctious as a student, so I couldn't pay attention, right? So toward the end of the year, although I knew the subject matter, I didn't do the labs. And so my guidance counselor says, you're going to fail biology. If you don't drop this class, Mr. Haskell is going to fail you. And I was like, all right, well, I'll drop it and take it next year. Next year comes and. And mind you, I got A's in everything. And I just got this, you know, potent potential F in bio. Yeah. So the second year, she says, the guidance counselor says, well, you're going to take Ms. Frame. She's the other bio teacher. And I said, no, I want to take Mr. Haskell again because I want to show him that I can do it. So in 10th grade, I take Mr. Haskell, and I aced the course. I become a teacher's assistant. Because I'm a year older than the other kids, I'm kind of helping a little bit. So him and I bonded. When I got to the class that first day, he just looked at me and he's like, Mr. Gabrieli.
So he's thinking, why would this kid take me again? No one's ever done this, right? I wanted to show him that I could really perform. So we bonded. So that's kind of like the, you know, the backstory, right? So here, here I am now. You know, that was like 1978. I get this letter from him in 1986 saying, basically, I heard from some of the guys that you're off the deep end and you're in. You're in danger.
I know a great rehab place over here in Rockland County. No one has to know about it. It's just between us almost suggesting that he would help facilitate this for me at that moment. So again, 4am After a five night bender, I'm looking at the walls and I'm hallucinating. I open this letter, and after reading this letter, I close it and never touched another drug.
A switch went off. The switch went off in my mind and heart at that moment. And the best, best thing I can say to you is two things that that happened. One is I actually felt in my mind, I can't party any more than this. This is like, I've already done all of it. The fact that I'm still alive, maybe that maybe I did enough. And then if this guy cares about me this much, and this was the Only person that I, that I would have listened to because again, all my family and friends were telling me, rick, be careful. You're going to be in trouble. You're going to die, you're going to get arrested. I heard nothing, but I read this letter and something changed. So I call it the currency of connection.
I felt something that was probably the closest thing to my father touching me on this earthly plane. And I. And again, I don't know why this happened. I mean, I maybe have a little clue now because of some of the work I've done since that day.
[00:16:23] Speaker A: Right, right.
[00:16:23] Speaker B: Still, as a human being, as a man, I still don't know what happened other than it was divine intervention, whether you want to say God stepped in or my father stepped in, or the angels on behalf of my father. And, you know, but anyway, Noel Haskell was the messenger of that particular.
Your important message.
[00:16:48] Speaker A: You know, it's interesting to though the timing you read that. You could have read that at 2 in the afternoon when you hadn't started. And it may not have meant anything to you. You were in a state you would realize you hit rock bottom and you happen to open it at the perfect moment.
[00:17:05] Speaker B: It's like a perfect. It was as low as you could be. It was as alone as you could be. It was as, you know, locked up as you could be, you know, so. To play in plain English.
[00:17:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:20] Speaker B: So what's interesting is I did not know how to recover at that moment. So I did not know what recovery would look like. I did not know what. I did not know what happened in the first place. So I didn't know what the steps were to feeling like myself again. I did not ever really feel like myself again because with an experience like that, you can't really, you know, once the parachute's opened. Right. You can't fold it the same way again. So. But what happened was I had a good friend who said, you know, let's go play racquetball. Let's do things to move your body, to kind of do the things that you would do if you were trying to be a healthier version of yourself. So I went and did that and, you know, a couple of good things happened.
It took about a year to kind of feel like I had maybe gotten that, the substance and the, the mindset, the lifestyle out of me. Right. So it took about a year of, you know, consistent being away from the people. That was not easy. The people kept coming and I had to tell them no. So that was hard. But I did not have Any feelings that I needed to use drugs or use alcohol or replace it with something, if anything, I replaced it with, you know, music was a big part of it, you know, so. So I, I still was able to be Rick. I was still able to be enthusiastic. I was still able to find joy. But I was in recovery. There's no doubt, you know, I. I had done enough to my body and, and mind and spirit that I had to, you know, come back from something. So I definitely felt like I had to come back. But what's interesting was I never said to Noel Haskell, that's my biology teacher, thank you for writing me that letter. I never said anything. I just, I just came back. He saw that, so he obviously knew, and we were, we did things together and we, you know, he was a good friend of the family. About a year later, after, after one of these racquetball games, I was in a bar up in Armac, New York, called the Wampus Inn, which was built in 1640, and I met a woman named Carol one particular night. And I was like in a full court press.
You know, we've been together 36 years, were married 34. You know, I literally, you know, found a goddess or an angel to kind of help me with this journey.
You know, that was a life changing experience one year later.
[00:19:59] Speaker A: Ironic at a bar too, right?
[00:20:02] Speaker B: It was, yeah. And I didn't hesitate to go out to bars and do those kind of things.
[00:20:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:06] Speaker B: What's interesting was that bar, which was built in 1640, burned to the ground one week after we met.
[00:20:15] Speaker A: No.
[00:20:15] Speaker B: So, yeah, it was, it was built in the 1600s and it was there forever. And ironically, that was January of 1987 when we met. October of 86. We were both here for a Halloween party in costume and didn't know we.
[00:20:30] Speaker A: Were there at the same place. That same place. Yes.
[00:20:32] Speaker B: And it was her. Her first and only time there. And the second time was in January when we met. So we were meant to be in the same place, but we didn't meet the first time. And then about 12 years later, after we had gotten married and we had a child, we were down in Ocean Grove, New Jersey, right at Noel Haskell's beach house.
[00:20:56] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:20:56] Speaker B: And we happen to be at the beach, myself, Carol, my wife, and my. My first son, Alex, who was three at the time. So this was 1980. 80. 1997.
[00:21:10] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:21:11] Speaker B: So that was a. The letter was 86. It was about 11 years later. We were body surfing, myself and Noel, and we, and we, we hit this amazing Wave. And I went to the shore, hooping it up. And he. I didn't see him, so I turned around and I looked for him. And then when I turned and looked at the. Out into the water, his lifeless body was floating face down in the ocean.
[00:21:36] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:21:37] Speaker B: So I swam out to him, grabbed him, brought him to shore, and he was paralyzed from the neck down. Put him on the sand. The paramedics came. They resuscitated him. He couldn't speak. He was just blinking and moving his mouth a little bit. Brought him to the hospital.
In his hospital bed that night, I was kneeling by his bedside, and I held his hand, and I just leaned over and I whispered, now we're even.
You saved my life, now I saved yours. Tears streamed down his face Again, the currency of Connection.
He made a full recovery. Wouldn't let us tell any of his family that what happened. Over the course of another year, he had a surgery and the paralysis went away. His. His feeling came back. He lived another 15 years. We traveled. We did all the things you do in life. Neither of us ever spoke of the letter or the beach rescue once.
[00:22:36] Speaker A: Unbelievable.
[00:22:37] Speaker B: We just lived our lives without ever talking about it. Other people talked about it, but not a lot. And. And so, you know, subsequently, I obviously realized at the time why he saved me and why I saved him. And so it's just a beautiful story of what can really happen when you have a connection. And so was it. Was it the quirky nature of him that made me take him for biology a second time? Was it his connection to my family prior to me having him as the youngest of three kids? Was it my balls to take him a second time and really do what nobody else would do?
You know, was it him writing the letter, risking me, shunning him like I did with everyone else? So all these things had to happen for my, you know, tiny, seemingly unimportant life to be saved. But I vowed not only when I read the letter, but certainly when I held his hand that night, that I would at least commit to trying to tell the story and inspire other people. But it wasn't until 2020 that Carol and I wrote the book the Currency of Connection. But maybe a few years earlier, my good friend Genev Cadell, who I mentioned, she's a doctor up in New Hampshire, therapist. She's the one who prompted me to. She wanted to interview me to tell this story the first time, because I was. I was too afraid to tell people, you know, this terrible story because I didn't want to be. I didn't want to be embarrassed at having people know, you know, this. This horrible past, you know?
[00:24:19] Speaker A: Well, you were. You were.
The fact that you trusted yourself to be emotionally vulnerable is. Is quite impressive. It's not easy to do that, Rick.
So. So, Rick, we know that. That there was some kind of divine intervention there somewhere where you are now. How did you use that story to bring you to where you are now? Because you. The currency of connection. You are a master at connecting the right people at the right time.
[00:24:52] Speaker B: Thank you, Drew. Well, you know, I still feel like I'm that kid.
[00:24:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:58] Speaker B: And so, you know, we started talking early on when we got on this, this the community room today about, you know, not growing up. And so I was determined to not only finish my childhood and somehow make something productive out of it, because that's what I was taught, right? I was. If I'm going to honor my father, I've got to try to honor what. What he did with his life to try to give me a better life. And so in connecting people and saying, you know what, and everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle, there is not one person that I come in contact with, no matter how good their life looks, no matter how, you know, the highlight reel of their social media looks. We are all struggling with the same stuff. All our problems are very similar. We've all got problems. We all want more money, we all want more love. We all want to be healthier, you know, so we all want to do these things. We want to make great stuff, we want to say great things. We want to have good content. So everyone I meet, I know they're fighting a hard battle. They may not tell me right away. They might say, rick, I got it all going on, man. Everything's going. But if I talk to them a little bit further or if I bring them together with the right people, and that's when they might be able to say, hey, you know what I'm struggling with. But sometimes we have to know each other's struggle in order to open up. And I'm basically here to give people permission to say, you know what?
This is how I can relate to what you. Or maybe I'm not relating at all, but I can understand because we have problems and issues together, and sometimes it's not even life threatening, but it could be just enough to take us off the path. So the way I bring people together and the reason I do it is because I know what isolation feels like. I know what feeling alone feels like. And you know what it could be today I could Feel isolated and alone today when we hang up this podcast, I could feel isolated and alone in a room full of people just because what's going on in my own heart and mind might take me there. So we're not immune from any of this stuff. This could, you know, any day could be the day you hit bottom again. And so having support around you, knowing, you know, building the tools, being in a group like this, having other men around us who say, you know what? I don't have it all figured out. I'm not there. I'm not done, or I'm not even whole. I'm broken.
[00:27:38] Speaker A: Yeah. Have you told that story to your children?
[00:27:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I have. And, you know, they both see it differently. They both process it differently. So my older son sees it very differently. I. I would say that he is more.
More of a. Of a critic of it and of the path than my younger one. So ironically, they have very different personalities. So I think that the way my, my, My older son was raised is a very different life. Me as more of a disciplinarian, me as a new parent, that time in my particular life and with my wife. So I think his world, his trajectory was very different. So how he sees me, I think is much more of a villain in that story. And how the, how the younger one sees me as can. He can relate much more. Again, whether it's a birth order thing, personality thing, but yeah, they. They both know it, but they both see it totally differently. The older one never talks about it. The younger one, we talk about it regularly.
[00:28:49] Speaker A: What's the age difference between the boys?
[00:28:51] Speaker B: One is 28, one is 22. Six years.
[00:28:55] Speaker A: That six year difference.
[00:28:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:57] Speaker A: Interesting. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:29:00] Speaker B: And I would say. I would say my. My older son was really raised as an only child because he was an only child for six years. So, you know, whatever your belief on the amount of formative years that we have. Right. Six is a lot.
[00:29:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:15] Speaker B: And his, his world was completely, you know, he was the only person in his world for six years. So when the, when the little one came along, even though he wanted a sibling desperately, of course, we all know how that goes when you're not the only attention to share everything. And, and I, And I think I was different. I think my wife was different. I think that, you know, I know in my family, my brother and sister, who were 14 and 10 when I was born, were raised in a different life than I was raised in.
[00:29:47] Speaker A: True. Absolutely true. So, Rick, we want to spread the word that you're here and available to, to to, to, to, to connect with people. What, what are you working on now that you want people to know? And what's the best way to get in touch with you so people can learn more about what you do and how you help people?
[00:30:08] Speaker B: Thank you, Drew. So, you know, the two things that I'm working on right now that I think are the most important is my podcast. It's called the Road Ahead Cafe. And, and that is, you know what, I'll put up a, even though you guys, you know, this is not going to be a video, I put up a virtual background which kind of shows those things. So the Road Ahead Cafe is my podcast with Frank Vandenhorst and Peter M. Fellows. Frank is a Dutchman and Peter is a Canadian. So we got the New York Italian, got the Dutchman and the Canadian. So the Road Ahead Cafe is the most fun I have each week is Thursday mornings when I record this show and get with these two guys. I call them elders because they're older than me. So I'm excited about that.
[00:30:52] Speaker A: And what's the tagline you say about. What is it?
What's the tagline for the Road Ahead Cafes? About ordinary.
[00:31:00] Speaker B: It was three ordinary guys. One extraordinary mission to help elevate your life. Yeah, so, so the three of us are really not gurus. We're just regular people. We explain how, how we go at life through our own lenses. And it's been fun. We're, we're in our 80th show already. It's a weekly show, so we were going to give it six months and see if it would last. And it's the most fun I have every week. And so the Road Ahead Cafe podcast is out there. And in last November, we built an online peer coaching community called the Source, which is, you know, something we all wanted to do and we never succeeded at it before. But the three of us together with our resources and again, connection, we were able to build this community of like minded, incredible community builders. And so we're happy that it's working and it's, it's not only nourishing for the people involved, but the, the ways we continue to grow and, and really give the community the voice. It's not about the three of us, it's about the people in it. So that's been very successful and it's a members only community and you know, it's something you can find
[email protected] that's beautiful.
[00:32:13] Speaker A: Best of success with that. Rick, tell us about the books you've written and where we can find them.
[00:32:19] Speaker B: I'm a four time author. One of the books I read was a trade book in the dental industry which I have I have an Iron and the Fire in a dentist dental practice which I teamed up with my sister and brother in law called Scarsdale Dental Spa. So I'm a visionary marketer in that business created a new way to offer dentistry and and I wrote a book called Dental Practice Bliss was which was for dentists and then I wrote two books on marriage before getting together with Carol. I was a marriage coach and I I also wrote the book the Currency of Connection with Carol in during the pandemic we were sitting around trying to figure out what to do and really struggling with isolation ourselves of course. So we go to book not only about this story you all heard today, but ways in which to connect to create more energy, value and meaning in your life and the lives of those around you.
[00:33:15] Speaker A: Rick, I want to thank you for being you and I appreciate you and the more of Rick Gabrieli we all can get, the better off we're going to be as human beings. Thanks again for coming on Rick. Always grateful to have you as a friend and I'm very grateful you you and I have met my friend. Thank you so much.
[00:33:36] Speaker B: As am I. Thank you. Thank you.
[00:33:38] Speaker A: Take care.
[00:33:39] Speaker B: Rick.
[00:33:42] Speaker A: Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, please subscribe and give us a review to help others find it. If you find yourself immersed in adversity and would like to find support from other men in times of struggle, please become a member of my My Men Supporting Men Collaboration Tribe by emailing
[email protected] expressing your interest and I'll get in touch with you. Speak to you soon.
