[00:00:06] Speaker A: Welcome to from caving in to crushing it, the podcast for those who find themselves immersed in adversity and choose to write their story instead of having others write it for them. I'm Drew Deraney. And I'm your host, Nick.
It's wonderful to be able to meet you, my friend.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: Yeah, Drew. I'm excited for today's conversation. I feel like the discussion we've had before pressing record or with that discussion, we're cut from the same cloth. We're viewing the world and opportunity in a very similar way. So excited to see what you want to dive into.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: Absolutely. And you know what? I am inspired by you, number one for your young age of 29. God knows where I was at 29. Not as far as you are my friend in life, which is okay. We all go at our different pace.
And we also know, Nick, that when we are growing up, we're told that life is linear. It's a straight path. If you do all the right things, a plus b plus c, we're going to get to the end result. And some of us learn later in life that that was not true. Some of us at a younger age and in our travels, you're going to follow a circuitous path to where you're going to end up not knowing where that's going to be. And we've all got a choice. When we hit that defining moment, we either retreat from it because we're scared, or we embrace it as a gift to strengthen ourselves. And I know you're one who, at a young age, have been able to embrace those defining moments. If you could reach back as far as you'd like to remember and let the audience know what that defining moment was for you, that has helped shape you to who you are and who you're going to be.
[00:01:57] Speaker B: Well, I have a few of those moments, but the one that stands out the most, I was 20 years old. I was going into my senior year of college, and I had just taken an internship at a local software company. It was a sales internship, and I had about an hour commute each way to this internship. And I remember early in that experience, my boss, the sales director at the time, Kyle, he introduced me to the world of personal development podcasting. Now, up until that point, I was living a pretty confusing life. And I'll say confusing because on one side of the spectrum, I had developed a little bit of an ego. I was very competitive, I think sometimes at the expense of the people around me. And so I wasn't a lot of fun to be around. I was emotionally reactive, and so there was that. But I had also had a lot of fear and insecurity on the other side of the spectrum. I cared way too much about what other people thought of me, and I had developed a lot of social anxiety. So in a small group, all eyes on me. In a big group, I was terrified. Like, pit in my stomach, couldn't talk in front of other people. So Kyle recommends these personal development podcasts, and I start listening to them. And what I realized was, as people were being interviewed, a lot of these were business people, successful business people. They were all giving at least some credit for their success to the books that they were reading. And so here I was, like this cocky 2021 year old who thought he knew everything about the world, but also lived this double life where I was living with fear and anxiety every single day. And I just had this moment where I realized if I deliberately choose not to read these books, then I'm deliberately choosing to live under my potential. And so I went to my local Barnes and Noble, and I was too scared to talk to anybody. But I decided to buy a few books, and I have not looked back. I've realized that these books condense decades of somebody else's lived experience into days of reading. And here's what I did with precision, accuracy. I went after every single pain that I was dealing with, every fear, every anxiety, and I just removed it over and over and over again. And every single skill that I wanted to develop, I read about those skills, and I added them over and over and over again. So I guess when I look back and I think about that defining moment, I could have, oh, you know what? I'm too cool for this, right? I didn't read much growing up. I'm too cool for this. I'm not going to embrace it. Thanks, Kyle, for the podcast recommendations, but no, thank you. Thank goodness, though. I decided to embrace it because I definitely would not be where I am. So that's kind of my defining moment, I think, was Kyle saying, check out these podcasts, buddy. You're not on the top of the world unless you check these out.
[00:04:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that for a few reasons. Many reasons. Number one, it is a blessing to have another male figure for a male as a role model or a mentor. And if Kyle didn't care enough about you as a human being and your growth, that's one thing that wouldn't have happened, right?
He embraced the fact that he could mentor you, and I bet you if you talk to Kyle now, he had a mentor who did the same for him, because that pay it forward concept is a wonderful, wonderful thing to do. And I know you're paying it forward for other people now, you were ready for that.
If you were not ready, willing and able to accept that, you wouldn't have kudos for being ready for it and for embracing that, because you have not looked back. So you started reading books, and I know you're on the path to. You have a way of reading a book for a certain purpose. Was that a gift or a skill that you developed? How do you take a book and take those words and really apply them to life? Because it's not that easy. A lot of people don't have really good reading comprehension, especially the youth these days. How do you do it?
[00:05:59] Speaker B: Yeah. So, as I started to build my community, my community, mostly online bookthinkers on Instagram, we have about 150,000 readers in that community. Over the years, hundreds of people have reached out, and they'd say something similar, like, hey, Nick, I appreciate all of the book recommendations, but how the heck do we implement these? How do we take effective notes? How do we retain more from the books we're reading? How do we translate information into action? And I was doing it, but I wasn't really conscious of my own process. I had never taken the time to define everything that I was doing. I think I just built this process over the course of five years and hundreds of books, just figuring out what worked through trial and error. And so eventually, I decided, you know what? I need to kind of pause and look at my own process from a third party perspective, analyze my own behavior like I was watching it on tv or something, and then detail it, define it, write down these strategies.
And so, in hindsight, you know, what's really interesting is that same job where Kyle introduced me to podcasting. I took a full time position with them after college, and I was selling a software package that needed to be implemented. So it was a b to b software, and the customer that would purchase it would go through a period of implementation with our team that would last anywhere from a few weeks to a few months, depending on the size of the company. And so I think what happened was, when I started reading these books, I just applied the same process. I would go through a period of implementation that would last weeks or months so that I could get more from the books I was reading. Because if the companies I was selling to chose not to implement, the software would fail. And so I think what was happening was I was being conditioned to think the same thing about the books. If I didn't go through a period of implementation, nothing would happen. And so that was step number one, was, you need to spend time reading, but you also need to spend time implementing and practicing what you've learned. And so I think that was it a skill that I developed, yes, through a lot of repetition, but I think I was also conditioned to do that in the position I was in.
[00:08:10] Speaker A: That's interesting, because I think about the way I read, and it takes me very long time to read a book. And sometimes I give up because I am taking so many notes, copious notes, and in hearing what you just said, I believe it's probably best for me to read the book once straight through to get a flavor for it, and then reread it with the notes. Then I'm going to get through it. Otherwise, I'm going to have 30 books with a bookmark on page ten.
[00:08:40] Speaker B: Here's one of my favorite recommendations.
I think that we should set an intention for each book that we read.
[00:08:47] Speaker A: Okay?
[00:08:47] Speaker B: And so sometimes that doesn't require reading an entire book. Here's my explanation.
Sometimes I'll meet people and I'll say, hey, Drew, what are you reading? And you'll tell me. And then I'll say, why? And then you'll just. Sometimes people just meet me with a blank stare. They're like, what do you mean, why? And I say, why are you reading the book that you're reading? What is the goal for the book? So let's say I'm reading a book on lead generation for my business. I'm not just going to read it and hope that it changes my life. I'm going to set a smart goal, a smart intention for the book. So that goal will be specific, measurable, attainable, relevant to my life or business, and time bound, that's the smart acronym. And so instead of just reading without intention, I'll say, my goal is to find and implement at least two strategies for effective lead generation by the end of September. Now, that is specific. It's measurable. I know whether or not the book served its purpose, and I don't have to read the entire book to find those two things. It's attainable. It's not like, oh, I want to make a million bucks by the end of the month with this lead book, but it's just like, I want to find and implement two things. It's relevant to my business because, frankly, we're growing a lot, but we stink at lead generation, and it's time bound. I give myself a deadline. I want to find and implement these things by the end of September. We're recording this on the 22nd of the month.
[00:10:10] Speaker A: Right?
[00:10:11] Speaker B: And you know what? I even do, too. I write that intention on the inside cover of the book so that each time I read a few more pages, I review the intention so that my brain can filter for those activities to implement. And taking it one step farther, and then I'll wrap up this long rant. Sometimes I will find ten, maybe 15 things that I could implement related to that intention. But not every opportunity for action is created equal. Some of them mean more. And so I'll only implement maybe 20% of those takeaways, the 20% that I think can lead to 80% of the change. And so it's one piece of my process. But I think you're right. If you can be very specific about what the book is supposed to do for you, and you get to page ten and you find and implement those two things, great. The book served its purpose.
[00:11:03] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:11:04] Speaker B: It was actionable.
[00:11:05] Speaker A: Wow.
What you're saying is going to help a lot of people in every aspect of their life, because what you're doing is you're living with intention and purpose.
And 90% of us, I'm going to say in the world, do not live intentionally with purpose. We're on autopilot. We are comparing, we are complacent, and we are just going through the motions. And the way you characterize, eliciting the information you need from a book is the way many of us, most of us, all of us, should go through life with intention and purpose, because that brings us into the present moment. Nick. Right. And I love that. And thank you for mentioning that, because it's not just about reading a book. It's about living your life with intention and purpose. And speaking of that, you're in that business full time with Kyle after college, and then at some point, something happens and you go a different direction. Can you let us know what that.
I always.
[00:12:10] Speaker B: I always felt like I would be a good entrepreneur. I ran my own house painting business for a couple of years in college, and I really enjoyed being able to make quick decisions and kind of having all the risk fall on me. I worked in that software company for a number of years after school. While I started to build book thinkers as a side hustle, I started just sharing the books I was reading on social media with the intention of meeting like minded people. And as I continued to share and that audience continued to grow, authors started to reach out and ask if they could pay me for a book review. So that was the first successful form of monetizing that audience. And you know what I would do? I mean, I'm reading all these business books about how to upsell. I would go back to these clients of mine and I'd say, hey, here are the number of impressions I generated, the number of comments on my social media posts, et cetera. Is there anything else that I can help with? Because I'd love to work in this space one time, full day. One day, full time. And can I help out with your social media? Can I book you on some podcasts? What else do you need help with? What pain are you experiencing as an author? Because it does stink when you spend years learning something, you spend years writing about something, and then nobody buys your book. So I knew that a lot of these authors were experiencing some type of pain or difficulty, and I wanted to figure out how to solve it.
[00:13:31] Speaker A: Right.
[00:13:32] Speaker B: What's unique about my entrepreneurship journey, I think, is that I was told very early on, don't jump off the cliff and try to build the parachute on the way down. Like, I wanted to jump right into this business full time. But as Michael Gerber says in his best selling business book, the Emyth Revisited, 95% of small businesses fail in the first five years because they run out of money. And so I kept my full time job while I built book thinkers on the side. And I stayed so long. This is what's different. I had full time employees in my business. My business was doing five figures a month in revenue before I decided to even quit that job and go full time in it. So I wanted to minimize risk and I wanted to build a business, but I wanted it to be a successful business that wouldn't fail because I ran out of money. So that was one of my goals.
[00:14:26] Speaker A: I'll tell you, that forethought is very important because as most first time entrepreneurs, they don't think about having that nest egg, so to speak, from a previous employment, to have there to help support the business while you're ramping up. And you're right. And more often than not, before they even realize that they turn and the cupboards bare. And then when they give up, they're 3ft from gold. Like think and grow rich talk. Right? I've gotten through the first ten pages there.
But you're right. And to give up is such a travesty because this country is built on entrepreneurs. And like you told me before, we recorded about the book, the five regrets of the dying, they didn't live because on their deathbed. That's when the idea was that I want to live. And so many great ideas that have never been implemented die with those poor people.
And I love what you're doing because you are helping others not be on their deathbed.
That's how impactful the work you're doing, man.
[00:15:40] Speaker B: My sweatshirt today says listening.
[00:15:43] Speaker A: It says, on a living spree.
[00:15:46] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:15:46] Speaker A: I love that. His hoodie, Nick's hoodie says, on a living spree. And I love that. I love that. How did that come into play?
[00:15:56] Speaker B: This company is called experiential billionaire, and it's just about financial.
Not everybody should define success based on financial success. I think it's living success. And so they have a bunch of cool swag, and this is just a sweatshirt that I picked up. Yeah, I'm on a living spree.
[00:16:15] Speaker A: I love that you're on a living spree. Because many of us, I included, define success as how much money I had. And when you're chasing an external circumstance that's beyond your control, you are let down so often, so that success has to be from within.
[00:16:33] Speaker B: When I was in my early twenty s, I was only impressed by somebody else's financial success. I thought that's what it was all about, too.
But nowadays, I've noticed this more recently when I meet somebody that's financially successful, but they're not healthy, or they don't have successful relationships with the people around them, which can change over time, but it's not as impressive to me anymore. It's like, yeah, you have all this money in the bank, but you've never lived your life.
[00:17:02] Speaker A: Very true.
[00:17:04] Speaker B: And you don't take care of. I'm not impressed by that anymore. So, yeah, that definition of success has changed a lot for me over time as well.
[00:17:12] Speaker A: Good for you. Good for you.
So then you leave the full time job, and now you're in with book thinkers full time to keep your mindset on that same path.
Did your mindset change at all once you left? Did you get scared or once. My gosh, I left my full time job. Now this is my full time gig. When did it hit you that this was your thing and that this is what you needed to do to keep it afloat?
[00:17:40] Speaker B: You know what? We can call it a sign from God. We could call it whatever we want. But when I quit my job and I went full time in book thinkers, our revenue doubled in the first month.
[00:17:51] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:17:51] Speaker B: And it was just kind of this. My input to the business didn't double. I didn't double the number of hours I was working, right? But it was almost like this cosmic consciousness, this universal reward. Like you are doing the right thing. Like a pat on the back. Hey, continue doing. Know what you're, uh.
I don't think I've experienced any. Know Tim Ferriss, one of my favorite authors, he has this fear minimization, I think he calls it fear setting. And you basically ask yourself, what's the worst case scenario? And so I thought through it. The worst case scenario is that the business fails and I go back to working for someone else. That's not so bad. What's even worse than that? If I can't find a job, I go back and live on my parents couch in my late 20s or early thirty s. I love them. That's not so bad, right? And so I realized that the worst case scenario wasn't so bad. Just like we're talking about. I want to make sure that I live a life based on my expectations for fulfillment. What drives me, what gets me out of bed every day, not what society is trying to force me to do. So I've even taken it to the extreme. I have a tattoo on my wrist that says reality is negotiable. And it's a constant reminder that I can design my reality. Something that fulfills me. Be an entrepreneur, help the right type of person. And so, yeah, you know what? I don't think I've regretted it even for 2 seconds since I went full time with my business.
[00:19:18] Speaker A: I love it. You're writing your own story. And every 15 minutes we can change our lives just by changing the mindset and doing something and doing what we want to do. And I love that message, Nick. I love it. So tell me where you want to bring book thinkers in the next few years.
[00:19:37] Speaker B: You know what's so interesting? We were talking about the present moment recently. We'll see if I can articulate this because it's kind of a confusing thought.
[00:19:43] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:19:44] Speaker B: But whenever people ask me about my vision for the business, I just want more of the same. Like, I genuinely enjoy the passage of time. I'm happy in the present moment right now. I don't think too much about the future. I don't think too much about the past.
I live and I had to cultivate that mindset, right? A lot of people say that anxiety is future thinking. Depression is thinking about the past too much. But if you can be in the present moment, that's where the living does happen.
And so I spend a lot of time meditating. I do a lot of mindfulness related practices, journaling things like that. I've tried to automate, delegate, or eliminate anything in my schedule that drains energy, or even things that are neutral. And I try to fill my calendar with things that bring me energy, like having conversations with you today on this podcast. And so, like, vision for the future with book thinkers. I mean, right now we have ten people on my team. We serve hundreds of authors a year.
Maybe that grows a little bit. But even if it stayed where it is today, and we just continue to impact more people through our book recommendations or by supporting authors so that they can get their book in the right hands, I'm a happy guy. So maybe more of the same, but not so different than today, either.
[00:21:05] Speaker A: I love that, Nick. I love so. So. You have a thriving business that you created from a dream, and you've made it a reality.
I listened to a couple episodes of your podcast. It's phenomenal. Tell the audience about your podcast and what your mission is for your podcast.
[00:21:25] Speaker B: Well, as my community started to grow on social media, I noticed that some of my favorite authors, they were resharing my book reviews, or they were following the account, maybe. I traded a couple of dms with them, and I thought it would be amazing to host a podcast where I could ask follow up questions from the books, give my audience an introduction to who this person is behind the scenes. Because a lot of times, Lewis Howes, who we talked about, he does have a big podcast, he does have a big social media presence, but not all of them do. And so it was kind of like, let me go ask some follow up questions, display some of my own curiosity, and talk about how to take action from these books. So I started the show, and you know what? I'm so fortunate. I've been able to interview so many of my favorite authors, not all of them, but a big chunk of them. People like Lewis Howes, and spend some time in person, get to know these people a little bit. And Lewis is such a great example of somebody who, he's on a mission to positively change the world, talk about mental health, talk about wellness in general, and he's exactly who you would want him to be. Off camera, I got to spend, like, four or 5 hours with him, and he's just, like, the best of the best.
[00:22:38] Speaker A: That's great. That's great for me because I admire him. It's great for me to learn from you that Lewis Howes is in private who he is in public, because that's the authenticity this world is craving. Nick.
All right, so now we've got an awesome podcast. You got an awesome business.
There's got to be a book writing, you being an author in your future. And I have a sense that there might be.
[00:23:07] Speaker B: Yes, well, you have sensed correctly.
So, November 1, my very first book comes out, rise of the reader strategies for mastering your reading habits and applying what you learn. And I'm supposed to actually get my first test physical copy today. Otherwise I would have held it up.
[00:23:24] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh.
[00:23:25] Speaker B: That whole intention framework about building a smart goal for each book that you read, that's an example of one of the dozens of strategies that I've put in this book. I've tried to make it as actionable as possible. So we talk about. Your whole podcast is about people overcoming difficulties, living to tell that story, and providing valuable action steps to other people so that they can do it themselves.
[00:23:49] Speaker A: Right.
[00:23:50] Speaker B: The message that I have about this book is that each one of us, we think that our pain is unique. We think that we're the only person on the planet dealing with whatever we're dealing with. But the fact of the matter is, and I've learned this reading hundreds of these books, is that literally billions of people have lived before us. Millions of them have documented their lives and how they overcame challenges in the form of these books. And thousands of those books are probably a good fit for you. And I'm talking to anybody in the audience today, they can detail how to overcome the pain that you're currently experiencing. No matter how much you think it's unique to you, somebody else can provide you some action steps on how to overcome that problem. So, for $20, in a few hours of your time, you can remove a pain.
And I heard Jordan Peterson say this once, and the math checks out. If you're experiencing something painful on a daily basis over the next 30 years, you'll experience that pain 11,000 times.
[00:24:52] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:24:54] Speaker B: So why not take the time to read about how somebody else overcame that difficulty or listen to it on this podcast, spend a little bit of time overcoming it yourself, and remove that pain for the next 11,000 days. And that's kind of how I think about things. It's like, life doesn't have to be so hard if we just choose to work on our lives instead of just in our lives. You know what I mean?
[00:25:20] Speaker A: That's a great point.
There are so many statistics out there about people following somebody else's life and not fulfilling their own, and about people dying young. Now, we don't have to be part of those statistics, right? Not one person listening to this episode with Nick Hutchison has to be any of those statistics, right? So you're not alone. There are many ways to surround yourself with people who care about you. So the first step is really to tell your story. Talk to somebody. It is cathartic.
For me, just talking to Nick is cathartic because he's helped me learn how to read a book better. So open your mouths. Don't be afraid of how people are going to react, because the only thing we can control is our own behavior. You can't control what other people think or say or do. So throw that out there and just ask for help. Nick, I could talk to you all day, my friend. I've got two final questions I'll run at you, and then I want to let the audience know how to get in touch with you. And actually, I intended earlier before we recorded, to not have you promote yourself. I wanted to promote you, and I forgot to ask you how you wanted me to do that. So my apologies there. So I will ask you to say how? Well, let's do that now. And then I'll do the final two questions. How can people. Because they're going to want to get in touch with you. They've captured the essence of Nick Hutchison right now. How can people get in touch with you so they can get a more meaningful conversation?
[00:26:53] Speaker B: One of my favorite things to do is play this book matchmaker role for people. So if anybody wants a custom book recommendation for me, DM me at bookthinkers on Instagram, and that's our most vibrant community. Consume some of that content. But also shoot me a DM. Tell me about a problem you're facing. Tell me about a skill set that you'd like to develop to kind of close the gap between where you are and where you want to be. I might ask some follow up questions, but I'll follow through and provide a book recommendation. And I'll even follow up three or six months later and ask you if you've read the book and what you thought, what do you implement, that type of thing. So that's my favorite thing to do. That's where you can find all the information that you need. So find more information on my book, you can find more information on my business, more information on me. And I do answer every single message. Sometimes it takes me a little while, but I will get to you. So if you want to reach me at bookthinkers spelled just like it sounds on Instagram.
[00:27:52] Speaker A: Perfect.
[00:27:53] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:27:54] Speaker A: Now to the last two questions. Okay, Nick, you have the opportunity.
You're sitting down with young seven to ten year old Nick and you want to give him advice about life. What are you going to tell him?
[00:28:08] Speaker B: One of my biggest qualms with the US public education system, at least the one that I went through, was that they teach you failure is a bad thing. To avoid failing on tests or quizzes or in front of the class, you'll get made fun of, you'll receive poor grades. And I think that we're conditioned from a young age to fit society's mold, to be scared, to take risk, to avoid failure and to be a good employee. But what you learn when you start to grow and you start to get into this world of personal development is that by failing and understanding that it's part of the process, you can improve your life, you can improve skills, you could start a business, you could create something that's unique to you. So I would tell that youngster to embrace failure, not to worry so much about it. I had so much anxiety anticipating failures during public speaking and in front of the class and with test taking and making so nervous. Even with sports a little bit, man, I wish I had the head that I do right now. Back then, playing football and wrestling and everything, because back then I was so timid. So, yeah, that's what I would say. I'd say, nick, failure is a good thing. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise. And by embracing failure, you will improve your life. That's how it happens. Not by trying to be perfect for everybody else.
[00:29:27] Speaker A: I love that. I love that. All right, so you're going to switch hats. And now you have the opportunity to sit down with young Nick, the young entrepreneur, young businessman, and you want to give him some advice about business. What are you going to tell him?
[00:29:40] Speaker B: You know what? I'd probably tell him the same thing. But I'd also say, be patient. It's all going to work out. And focus on enjoying the passage of time. Focus on being in the present moment.
By then, I started to understand that failure was part of the process. But don't worry, man, like, it's all going to work out. That's probably what I would say.
[00:29:59] Speaker A: I love that. Well, Nick, first I want to thank you for coming on. Actually, first I want to say I'm grateful you are now in my life. It happened in a weird way, an unexpected way. And I have James to thank for that.
Keep doing what you're doing, please. You've got so many years ahead of you that you are just giving people inspiration, hope.
For me, as a 54 year old male who's got children who are 1719 and 21. I can only hope that when my 21 year old is 29, he's very much like you. And the same for my 19 and 17 year old daughter. Thank you. You're very impressive, sir. Keep doing what you're doing. You're making a big positive impact in this world, and I want to help you spread it. So please, everybody, buy his book that's coming out. What's the name of it again?
[00:30:53] Speaker B: Rise of the reader.
[00:30:55] Speaker A: We need more of the youth and people like me to really learn how to read with purpose, man. So, Nick, thanks again and best of success to you, and thanks again for coming on.
[00:31:07] Speaker B: Thank you very much, Jerry. I appreciate it.
[00:31:10] Speaker A: Be well, everybody.
Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, please subscribe and give us a review to help others find it. If you find yourself immersed in adversity and would like to find support from other men in times of struggle, please become a member of my men's supporting men collaboration tribe by emailing me at
[email protected] expressing your interest, and I'll get in touch with you. Speak to you soon. Bye.
